Non-core contributed modules

Group self selection

Details

  • Type: New Feature New Feature
  • Status: Closed Closed
  • Priority: Minor Minor
  • Resolution: Duplicate
  • Affects Version/s: 1.8.3, 1.9, 2.0
  • Fix Version/s: None
  • Component/s: Module: Group selection
  • Labels:
    None
  • Environment:
    All

Description

I have modified my Moodle installation so that there is an option to allow students to select groups. The discussion and code is at http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=6247. It has worked well here in York. Martin said he wants this in Moodle 1.3

Issue Links

This issue will be resolved by:
CONTRIB-2868 Upgrade group self selction for Moodle 2.0 Major Closed
This issue is duplicated by:
MDL-13962 Allow students to enrol themselves into groups with limits on max users per group Major Open
This issue has been marked as being related by:
MDL-15641 Allows Studendts to self select their groups with max user setting for each group. Includes also a "group assignment" mod Major Open

Activity

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Martin Dougiamas added a comment -

From Martin Dougiamas (martin at moodle.com) Thursday, 6 May 2004, 03:34 PM:

Might have to wait since a full implementation will require some settings in Course settings ...

From Gustav Delius (gwd2 at york.ac.uk) Saturday, 21 August 2004, 06:38 AM:

I hope it can be in 1.4.

From Martin Dougiamas (martin at moodle.com) Saturday, 21 August 2004, 09:53 AM:

I'm still waiting on a final version of the DCU code that I mentioned ... I did try it out on their dev server though and it looks pretty good.

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Martin Dougiamas added a comment - From Martin Dougiamas (martin at moodle.com) Thursday, 6 May 2004, 03:34 PM: Might have to wait since a full implementation will require some settings in Course settings ... From Gustav Delius (gwd2 at york.ac.uk) Saturday, 21 August 2004, 06:38 AM: I hope it can be in 1.4. From Martin Dougiamas (martin at moodle.com) Saturday, 21 August 2004, 09:53 AM: I'm still waiting on a final version of the DCU code that I mentioned ... I did try it out on their dev server though and it looks pretty good.
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Howard Miller added a comment -

This has been kicking around for a long time and is something we keep getting asked about. Was there ever any progress?

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Howard Miller added a comment - This has been kicking around for a long time and is something we keep getting asked about. Was there ever any progress?
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Greg Stoner added a comment - - edited

Please add this functionality as it would realy help administration and promote student democracy and participation.
Why not enable this by allowing choice selections to be used to build groups.

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Greg Stoner added a comment - - edited Please add this functionality as it would realy help administration and promote student democracy and participation. Why not enable this by allowing choice selections to be used to build groups.
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Gustav W Delius added a comment -

We are still using this feature in York, but because of the changes to the groups interface in newer versions of Moodle my patch is of no use any more.

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Gustav W Delius added a comment - We are still using this feature in York, but because of the changes to the groups interface in newer versions of Moodle my patch is of no use any more.
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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment -

This should be IMO implemented as a new activity (choose group from grouping) - there is no room for settings in current tables, it should survive backup/restore, it should be possible to have several selections per course...

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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment - This should be IMO implemented as a new activity (choose group from grouping) - there is no room for settings in current tables, it should survive backup/restore, it should be possible to have several selections per course...
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Greg Stoner added a comment -

I agree there ought to be the possibility of several such sets of groups in any course. (Is this groupings - as in 1.9 or 2.0?-I'm not sure - I thought the groupings were groups of groups but that the groupings were envisaged as subsets of the participants - not all of them, but I'm probably wrong.)

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Greg Stoner added a comment - I agree there ought to be the possibility of several such sets of groups in any course. (Is this groupings - as in 1.9 or 2.0?-I'm not sure - I thought the groupings were groups of groups but that the groupings were envisaged as subsets of the participants - not all of them, but I'm probably wrong.)
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Howard Miller added a comment -

Petr - do you literally mean a new module - the "Choose your group" activity or suchlike? We had long ago talked about making Choice have this function but I know that Martin was against that, preferring (IIRC) a facilty that was, in some way, part of groups. I'm not sure where that would live that would make it obvious to students. I have always erred towards the activity option myself, be it part of choice or otherwise.

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Howard Miller added a comment - Petr - do you literally mean a new module - the "Choose your group" activity or suchlike? We had long ago talked about making Choice have this function but I know that Martin was against that, preferring (IIRC) a facilty that was, in some way, part of groups. I'm not sure where that would live that would make it obvious to students. I have always erred towards the activity option myself, be it part of choice or otherwise.
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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment -

yes, brand new module in moodle/mod/groupselection/ - because there would be no storage of user data and no complex UI it should be less than 50 hours of work
maybe MD will like it when he sees it

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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment - yes, brand new module in moodle/mod/groupselection/ - because there would be no storage of user data and no complex UI it should be less than 50 hours of work maybe MD will like it when he sees it
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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment -

sending a preview of group selection module

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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment - sending a preview of group selection module
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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment -

renamed the mod to groupselect, please test

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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment - renamed the mod to groupselect, please test
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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment -

Martin approved it, we will work on this more during the next few days with Helen and put it into contrib

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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment - Martin approved it, we will work on this more during the next few days with Helen and put it into contrib
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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment -

It is in contrib/plugins/mod/groupselect now...

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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment - It is in contrib/plugins/mod/groupselect now...
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Helen Foster added a comment -

Hi Petr,

Thanks a lot for your group selection module - it's cool!

Suggestions for improvement:

  • Include group descriptions on groupselect/view.php
  • Have no password as the default option
  • Provide the option for group members to be hidden from students before they sign up (similar to the choice module publish results setting)
  • Provide the option for students to be able to change which group they are in (similar to the choice module allow choice to be updated setting)

Things I found confusing:

  • The group mode common module setting
  • The possibility to have more than one group selection activity per course - if a student selects a group in one group selection activity then they can't do anything in other group selection activities
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Helen Foster added a comment - Hi Petr, Thanks a lot for your group selection module - it's cool! Suggestions for improvement:
  • Include group descriptions on groupselect/view.php
  • Have no password as the default option
  • Provide the option for group members to be hidden from students before they sign up (similar to the choice module publish results setting)
  • Provide the option for students to be able to change which group they are in (similar to the choice module allow choice to be updated setting)
Things I found confusing:
  • The group mode common module setting
  • The possibility to have more than one group selection activity per course - if a student selects a group in one group selection activity then they can't do anything in other group selection activities
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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment -

Thanks Helen!

multiple selections in course make sense only if groupings used - for example activities in each section could use different grouping.

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Petr Škoda (skodak) added a comment - Thanks Helen! multiple selections in course make sense only if groupings used - for example activities in each section could use different grouping.
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Derek Chirnside added a comment -

I'm in favour of this. It is such a common need to set up groups with some student choice.

I'd like it really simple. Merely a way to populate normal groups. This should be simple: just some sort of choosing process to get the groups filled. With the possibility of people changing groups up until a deadline maybe, members visible or not - like Helen's suggestions above - OK. The moment you say something like this you do start to get a little complex. But I think it is worth doing.

Is there any likelihod of this getting into 2.0??

There is more discussion in this as well: http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-13962

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Derek Chirnside added a comment - I'm in favour of this. It is such a common need to set up groups with some student choice. I'd like it really simple. Merely a way to populate normal groups. This should be simple: just some sort of choosing process to get the groups filled. With the possibility of people changing groups up until a deadline maybe, members visible or not - like Helen's suggestions above - OK. The moment you say something like this you do start to get a little complex. But I think it is worth doing. Is there any likelihod of this getting into 2.0?? There is more discussion in this as well: http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-13962
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David Mudrak added a comment -

Taking this under my wings to try and finish the code.

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David Mudrak added a comment - Taking this under my wings to try and finish the code.
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David Mudrak added a comment -

Quick ideas after initial testings:

  • why do we not use a group key settings to control the sign-up process? If a group key is set, the groupselect should ask me for it before it signs me up into the group. Then I can control who can become memeber of each group. We can have slightly modified UI here: 1) use common sign-up password + <input> field 2) use group keys
  • imho students should have a possibility to leave the group - just in case of mis-click etc.
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David Mudrak added a comment - Quick ideas after initial testings:
  • why do we not use a group key settings to control the sign-up process? If a group key is set, the groupselect should ask me for it before it signs me up into the group. Then I can control who can become memeber of each group. We can have slightly modified UI here: 1) use common sign-up password + <input> field 2) use group keys
  • imho students should have a possibility to leave the group - just in case of mis-click etc.
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Howard Miller added a comment -

It does seem reasonable that this would use the key if it is set. I think this behaviour should be an option though.
Again (as an option) students should be able to change their minds.

I would go an look at the choice module. This is now quite mature and there is a lot of crossover in the UI. It works nicely and the group select could reflect some of the ideas and UI.

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Howard Miller added a comment - It does seem reasonable that this would use the key if it is set. I think this behaviour should be an option though. Again (as an option) students should be able to change their minds. I would go an look at the choice module. This is now quite mature and there is a lot of crossover in the UI. It works nicely and the group select could reflect some of the ideas and UI.
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Ray Lawrence added a comment -

David,

Just a thought... is this a good time to be developing new group related functionality given the discussions/consideration being given to site/context groups/cohorts at the moment.

Thinking about Howard's comment and moving it on a bit, why settle for a a single issue i.e. which group would you like to be in. If linked to, say, feedback or quiz too it could be possible to create a diagnostic activity to display a personalised course (or if used with cohorts perhaps to make certain courses available).

OK, that's my work done.... over to you!

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Ray Lawrence added a comment - David, Just a thought... is this a good time to be developing new group related functionality given the discussions/consideration being given to site/context groups/cohorts at the moment. Thinking about Howard's comment and moving it on a bit, why settle for a a single issue i.e. which group would you like to be in. If linked to, say, feedback or quiz too it could be possible to create a diagnostic activity to display a personalised course (or if used with cohorts perhaps to make certain courses available). OK, that's my work done.... over to you!
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David Mudrak added a comment -

Howard, Ray, thanks for your comments.

Firstly, it is important to underline that Petr and Helen already did almost all work needed. The module is in contrib, ready for testing in 1.9 environment.
My -1 to mix this with Choice or Feedback. Not only I like the idea coming from UNIX: "do one thing and do it well". IMHO this has nothing to do with such general modules like Choice or even Feedback. I would like to see an example of such Choice/Feedback - I might change my mind, though.
Also, I do not think we need to wait for cohorts API. Groups have been here since very early Moodle versions and still we do not have a tool in standard distribution to allow students to choose their group. Petr's code is already here...

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David Mudrak added a comment - Howard, Ray, thanks for your comments. Firstly, it is important to underline that Petr and Helen already did almost all work needed. The module is in contrib, ready for testing in 1.9 environment. My -1 to mix this with Choice or Feedback. Not only I like the idea coming from UNIX: "do one thing and do it well". IMHO this has nothing to do with such general modules like Choice or even Feedback. I would like to see an example of such Choice/Feedback - I might change my mind, though. Also, I do not think we need to wait for cohorts API. Groups have been here since very early Moodle versions and still we do not have a tool in standard distribution to allow students to choose their group. Petr's code is already here...
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Howard Miller added a comment -

Just to note that I didn't say we should mix this with Choice. That is something we talked about in the past but it was rejected. However, what I do like is consistency and everything that involves picking an option for yourself from a selection should look similar. In this respect this module is in many ways a particular case of what choice does.

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Howard Miller added a comment - Just to note that I didn't say we should mix this with Choice. That is something we talked about in the past but it was rejected. However, what I do like is consistency and everything that involves picking an option for yourself from a selection should look similar. In this respect this module is in many ways a particular case of what choice does.
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Ray Lawrence added a comment -

Yes, choice still needs to be separate.

I was just indulging in a little blue sky thinking....

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Ray Lawrence added a comment - Yes, choice still needs to be separate. I was just indulging in a little blue sky thinking....
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Jack Eapen added a comment -

Why there is no option for self-removal from a group and join another? is it possible?

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Jack Eapen added a comment - Why there is no option for self-removal from a group and join another? is it possible?
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David Mudrak added a comment -

Jack, this has not been implemented yet. it is on our actual todo list.

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David Mudrak added a comment - Jack, this has not been implemented yet. it is on our actual todo list.
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Andrew Yong added a comment -

I've just downloaded this module for trialling at our University and it prompts for a password when attempting to enrol in a group. Where do I obtain this password from? There is no enrolment key set for the course nor for that group.

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Andrew Yong added a comment - I've just downloaded this module for trialling at our University and it prompts for a password when attempting to enrol in a group. Where do I obtain this password from? There is no enrolment key set for the course nor for that group.
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David Mudrak added a comment -

Anna, I have re-assigned this to you as the current module maintainer. Can you please respond the last comment? Thanks in advance.

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David Mudrak added a comment - Anna, I have re-assigned this to you as the current module maintainer. Can you please respond the last comment? Thanks in advance.
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Anna Vanova added a comment -

Andrew, please visit this discussion thread: http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=123356. I need more info and I would like to redirect the conversation there. Thanks.

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Anna Vanova added a comment - Andrew, please visit this discussion thread: http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=123356. I need more info and I would like to redirect the conversation there. Thanks.
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Sergei Yegorov added a comment -

First of all. I'd like to say how much I appreciate your work! Keep it up! I installed this module and it works well. I have a suggestion to make.

We run an English grammar course where all teachers and students are divided into groups. Each teacher has their own enrolment key and the students use these keys to enroll on the course.

We encountered 2 major problems:

1. Some students do not use their real names and the teachers are puzzled when they see Dark Knight or Me Me in the grade book.
2. Some students register their virtual twins in order to have an opportunity to attempt quizzes several times.

In my opinion it would be great to give teachers an opportunity to approve or reject students who want to join their groups. (It seems that the new module ignores group enrolment keys ???)

It might look like an additional column cell 'Pending approval'

Student1 + -, Student2 + -

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Sergei Yegorov added a comment - First of all. I'd like to say how much I appreciate your work! Keep it up! I installed this module and it works well. I have a suggestion to make. We run an English grammar course where all teachers and students are divided into groups. Each teacher has their own enrolment key and the students use these keys to enroll on the course. We encountered 2 major problems: 1. Some students do not use their real names and the teachers are puzzled when they see Dark Knight or Me Me in the grade book. 2. Some students register their virtual twins in order to have an opportunity to attempt quizzes several times. In my opinion it would be great to give teachers an opportunity to approve or reject students who want to join their groups. (It seems that the new module ignores group enrolment keys ???) It might look like an additional column cell 'Pending approval' Student1 + -, Student2 + -
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Anna Vanova added a comment -

That is a good idea and it will be for sure useful for more scenarios than anonymous and mysterious accounts : ) Thanks for the idea.

The connection to the group enrolment keys will be available in the next module release.

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Anna Vanova added a comment - That is a good idea and it will be for sure useful for more scenarios than anonymous and mysterious accounts : ) Thanks for the idea. The connection to the group enrolment keys will be available in the next module release.
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Tim Lock added a comment -

Any plans for Moodle 2.0?

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Tim Lock added a comment - Any plans for Moodle 2.0?
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David Cane added a comment -

We need this in Moodle 2 - any plans for releasing, or does anyone know how this can be achieved via workaround in Moodle 2?

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David Cane added a comment - We need this in Moodle 2 - any plans for releasing, or does anyone know how this can be achieved via workaround in Moodle 2?
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Derek Chirnside added a comment -

I'd also be interested in this.
Enrique's e-mail (from http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-13962) bounced.

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Derek Chirnside added a comment - I'd also be interested in this. Enrique's e-mail (from http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-13962) bounced.
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Adam Olley added a comment -

David Cane, and anyone else interested, the updated Group Selection module for Moodle 2.0 can be found here:
http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/CONTRIB-2868

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Adam Olley added a comment - David Cane, and anyone else interested, the updated Group Selection module for Moodle 2.0 can be found here: http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/CONTRIB-2868
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Anthony Borrow added a comment -

Michael - I've added you as a watcher. A quick look at this indicates to me that it might want to be functionality in Moodle 2.0 (core). Based on the number of votes, should this be moved to MDL or should I close it as a duplicate of MDL-13962? There are a number of related issues. My vote would be to close this as a duplicate and have folks vote on MDL-13962 and then let's link up or at least summarize any references to possible coding solutions and make those available. Peace - Anthony

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Anthony Borrow added a comment - Michael - I've added you as a watcher. A quick look at this indicates to me that it might want to be functionality in Moodle 2.0 (core). Based on the number of votes, should this be moved to MDL or should I close it as a duplicate of MDL-13962? There are a number of related issues. My vote would be to close this as a duplicate and have folks vote on MDL-13962 and then let's link up or at least summarize any references to possible coding solutions and make those available. Peace - Anthony
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Michael de Raadt added a comment -

Hi, Anthony.

I agree group self-selection should be considered for inclusion as core functionality. Related to this is the request for group-based assignments. With the assignment module being considered for an update in 2.2, I think we should consider these aspects together. We will be examining the Roadmap in the next few weeks. With your help I will raise this idea at the developer's meeting tomorrow.

Michael;

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Michael de Raadt added a comment - Hi, Anthony. I agree group self-selection should be considered for inclusion as core functionality. Related to this is the request for group-based assignments. With the assignment module being considered for an update in 2.2, I think we should consider these aspects together. We will be examining the Roadmap in the next few weeks. With your help I will raise this idea at the developer's meeting tomorrow. Michael;
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Anthony Borrow added a comment -

I'm resolving this as a duplicate for now and will allow it to be considered for core under the linked MDL-13962 issue. If it is decided not to incorporate group self selection in 2.x then we can re-open this issue. Peace - Anthony

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Anthony Borrow added a comment - I'm resolving this as a duplicate for now and will allow it to be considered for core under the linked MDL-13962 issue. If it is decided not to incorporate group self selection in 2.x then we can re-open this issue. Peace - Anthony
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Anthony Borrow added a comment -

Closing all of my resolved issues. Peace - Anthony

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Anthony Borrow added a comment - Closing all of my resolved issues. Peace - Anthony

Dates

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    Resolved:
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