Moodle

Why not include Mike Churchward's Questionnaire in Moodle Core as well? Or, even better, why not have a complete re-vamp of the present four (4!) existing "questionnaires" into one full-fledged and unique Questionnaire, including and superseding Survey, Choice, Questionnaire and Feedback?
Joseph

Joseph - My impression from the forum discussion on feedback and questionnaire was that Feedback module was more "Moodle-like" in its user interface. I of course would support any development that takes the best of both worlds as I have both feedback and questionnaire installed on my production server but I have pushed my users toward feedback as it is more user friendly. I agree that I have never found much use for Survey and would think that choice could be incorporated into a more comprehensive solution. I do agree that a comprehensive solution would probably be better but I am willing to take steps toward that end. Peace - Anthony

Yes, I'll review Feedback code again soon for 1.9.

Martin - FYI (with apologies) - As I was learning to use TortoiseCVS, I inadvertently added in HEAD a directory /mod/feedback. In TortoiseCVS, the option to add a folder apparently (as I discovered) does not require a commit . AFAIK, a directory cannot be removed (something I discovered after adding). I apologize for any inconvenience or cluttering that this may cause but I wanted to let you know so that you would know who to blame and where to direct a big P-|. In the meantime, I will stick to my little section in contrib until I have a better understanding of CVS. Peace - Anthony (^_')

I've been playing with some of the feedback code to change the way that it handles anonymous feedbacks - see the discussion at http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=68639. I think how we handle anonymity (also discussed as a larger Moodle issue at http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=68654 will be one of the issues that needs some attention should feedback be included as part of Moodle core.

As I was looking at the code, I could not help but wonder if it ought to integrate with questions like lesson and quiz modules rather than having it have its own question types?

Yes, it absolutely should use the questions database ... I wonder if Andreas is interested in working on that though.

If Andreas is not interested or able, I am hoping to have more time this summer to dedicate to Moodle. I have recently been familiarizing myself with the feedback code as I have been playing with changing how anonymous feedbacks are handled.

Here is a hacked version of the feedback module that logs all submissions (anonymous and non-anonymous), maintains userid in the feedback_completed for all submissions and uses the anonymous_response field to keep track of which responses are anonymous. This hack allows for both anonymous and non-anonymous responses to be sorted by group. While this in theory makes responses less anonymous it makes it more useful for schools where an administrator may not to track down a grossly inappropriate response. It allows for teachers to review logs and randomizes the order of anonymous responses so that teachers cannot match the first response to the first submission in the logs. The language file was slightly modified to remove the description about anonymous not logging the user's name. The user's name is logged but the teacher will not be able to identify which student submitted which response. I have tried to comment as much as possible with //arb comment lines to indicate where I have made comments and modifications. Please feel free to use the code in so far as it is helpful and to avoid it in so far as it not helpful. Peace.

Andreas - With my proposed hack, it is important that we modify the export to excel file \mod\feedback\analysis_to_excel.php - I did the following to ensure that the response is not anonymous before sets the username:

if($user = get_record('user', 'id', $completed->userid)) {

• $username = fullname($user);
  + if ($completed->anonymous_response == feedback_ANONYMOUS_NO) { + $username = fullname($user); + } else { + $username = get_string('anonymous_user','feedback');}
  $worksheet->setFormat('<l><f><ru2>');

I then added the anonymous_user string to the language file. I will attach a diff of the language file. As I was playing with the analysis_to_excel.php I also noticed that there was no check if the feedback name contains any characters not allowed to be the name of an excel worksheet. One feedback that I was using was entitled Survey: Class [03-15-07]. Since a worksheet name cannot contain a colon the creation caused an error that Excel recovered from by renaming the worksheet something like Recovered Worksheet. It would be good if we check for and change the name of the feedback to remove any characters that are not allowed or if any are found give it a generic name. Technically this is a separate issue and it may become more helpful if I created a separate issue. Let me know what works best for you. Peace.

patch to language file - adds anonymous_user string

Martin - Would it be possible to setup Andreas with CVS write access? I think that getting the feedback code into contrib would greatly help push its development forward. Peace - Anthony

I've added feedback to contrib, with a MOODLE_17_STABLE branch, a MOODLE_18_STABLE branch and HEAD (all the same currently, as I took the code from the 1.7 release on Andreas' site).

http://moodle.cvs.sourceforge.net/moodle/contrib/plugins/mod/feedback/
http://moodle.cvs.sourceforge.net/moodle/contrib/plugins/blocks/feedback/

Anthony, thanks so much for offering to help. I hope Andreas can work on it here together with you and others.

I've also created a new category in the bug tracker for Feedback issues:

http://tracker.moodle.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?component=10204&sorter/field=priority&mode=hide&reset=true&pid=10033&sorter/order=ASC

(Currently contrib, for now, but later I hope we can move the whole lot into core).

Hi Martin,
What about adding the Questionnaire module to Moodle core distribution as well? Mike Churchward and myself have worked a lot on Questionnaire recently to fix a number of bugs and offer improvements.
The version of Questionnaire currently in moodle/contrib offers a number of features which are not offered by the Feedback module and - for users who can accept a less user-friendly interface - it certainly has a lot to offer.
Hope you will consider adding the addition of Questionnaire to Moodle core.
On the other hand, I do not agree that either Feedback or Questionnaire modules should "absolutely ... use the questions database" (your Comment here dated 9th April 2007). Quiz questions on the one hand and Feedback, Questionnaire, Poll, Survey, etc. question types on the other are essentially different in that they do not require a) feedback or b) grades; plus the Likert scale question type which is a must for Surveys is not usable in Quizzes.
Martin, would you consider adding a new category for Questionnaire issues in the tracker?
Joseph

Hi Joseph -

I think these modules can use the questions database, if the question code base has the flexibility to easily change the editing and display interface, and can be set up to not require grades. We'll have to look at the latest incarnation to see if it can do this. We may also need to add more question types to cover off ones that aren't there now.

mike

Hi Martin,

the feedback-module for 1.9 now is ready.
There was many hard work to do.

I would be happy if you could check the code and tell me your position.
Here the main things:

• now all functions in the lib.php are complete documented.
• all depricated function-calls are removed
• output is xhtml-conform
• item-plugins now are classes
• excel-export now is possible with latin or utf8
• most of forms use formslib
• gui now uses tabs

You can download it via cvs or here:
http://www.grabs-edv.de/referenzen/moodle/feedback-Modul/download_19.php

Cheers!
Andreas

As it appears that 1.9beta is coming closer to reality, I wanted to make sure that the feedback module does not get overlooked for inclusion. Currently, a fresh CVS install of 1.9dev produces an error that the feedback version.php file is not available because the code has not been added to the CVS core tree. Has MartinD made a decision to include or not to include feedback in 1.9? Peace - Anthony

Anthony Borrow wrote: "Currently, a fresh CVS install of 1.9dev produces an error that the feedback version.php file is not available because the code has not been added to the CVS core tree."

Yes, this is strange. It might be related to this other problem...

I use ECLIPSE to manage the moodle test sites I have on my local machine.
I have created a 'moodle19dev' project where I have checked out current moodle from HEAD.
Then I use the CVS Repositories to checkout various non-standard modules I want to add to my installation.
For example, if I want to add the Appointment module into my 'moodle19dev' project, here are the steps I take:

• go to the CVS Repositories window
• go to folder HEAD/contrib/mod/appointement
• right-click on it
• select Check Out As...
• select Check out into an existing project
• Next: select moodle19dev/mod
• Finish
  My CVS console shows: cvs co -d "appointment" -P -A "/moodle19dev/mod/contrib/plugins/mod/appointment"
  ...
  ok (took 0:03.406)

After a few seconds, I can see that the appointment module with all its folders and files has been put into my project, in the mod folder.

However, this does NOT work with the Feedback module. When I take all the above steps, everything looks OK until the last step, where ECLIPSE shows briefly Checking out one folders from CVS into '/moodle19dev/mod' and then it stops and the Feedback module is NOT downloaded into my project.

On the other hand, I CAN checkout the Feedback module to a) a new project or b) the root of my '/moodle19dev' project, but of course those two locations are useless for running it on my moodle install.

Can someone confirm this problem? And find a solution?

Joseph

Further to my previous post here...
on the other hand, there is no problem checking out contrib/blocks/feedback into an existing project...
Joseph

Just to say that checking out of the Feedback module works fine in ECLIPSE today...
Joseph

I'm examining this module closely right now. I've found a few issues which I'll file separately.

The issues I've found are mostly cosmetic:

http://tracker.moodle.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?component=10204&sorter/field=priority&mode=hide&reset=true&pid=10033&sorter/order=ASC

Overall I'm impressed with the code, it's very Moodly. Andreas, you've done a great job!

I checked a few obvious security things and they look OK, but I'll ask Petr to review that a bit more heavily.

The main issue in my mind is only the issue about using the question database. We have this new centralised question database now and it seems a shame not to have such a question-oriented module using it. Can you have a quick look at the problem and come up with a very rough plan and time estimate for how prsuch a conversion might proceed?

If I at least know it's reasonably possible without a 100% rewrite to get there from here then perhaps we can get this version in 1.9 and implement it to use the questions database for 2.0.

Thanks for viewing the code!
The solving of the issues you found shouldn't be a problem.

I still get stomachache with the questions database.
I think the main problems are:
Some questiontypes seems to be identically. But there are some different intentions. The questions for quiz are to find out right or false answers the questions for feedback not.
Some other questions are clearly different. Look for calculated or cloze questions on quiz and look for the rated questions or captcha on feedback.
There are some intentions to implement further questiontypes such as date-selection or crosstable and so on. These questions are relatively easy to implement for feedback with their special intention but not for question database with general usability.
An important point is the analysis. Some outputs are questionsspecific so it can not be implemented for general.
Another reason is that the feedback is used so often because it is so easy to use. This was and is my main goal. An easy to use survey-activity.

Is this a must to integrate the feedback-questions into the question database?

Hi Martin and Andreas,
I totally agree with Andreas that questions for the Feedback (or the Questionnaire) modules should be kept totally separate from the questions for the Quiz activities. As Andreas says, the intention is quite different, there is no feedback message involved in questions for Feedback/Questionnaire activities.
I see no advantage at all in using the questions database for such modules, only potential problems.
Joseph

Joseph, the advantages would be in reducing code duplication and overall bugs. That's one reason why you probably won't ever see Questionnaire AND Feedback in core Moodle. We asked about this some time ago on the forum and I thought the overall consensus was towards Feedback.

http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=52861

I'd rather not have two of these modules ... I hope we can all work on extending the good foundation of Feedback with the features it is missing ...

Back to the question database, I do see that point of view that it's a bit easier to leave them as they are (of course!). However, there's no reason why the question database can't have "types" of questions, such as "quiz" and "survey" type that limits where they can be used. Some will overlap (perhaps they are "general" type). Even with these general types, if they have feedback messages for quizzes they can be ignored for surveys. The point I'm getting to is that here is a golden opportunity to set up a consolidated architecture that all of Moodle can use. Lesson should use these questions, for example, as could Choice.

I worry that if we don't even consider this now then the opportunity will be lost - it will be harder to do it later.

Anyway, Petr Skoda is taking a look at Feedback now and giving it a further review.

Anthony, are the fixes you talk about above (from months ago) in the version that we have in CVS?

I am treating http://moodle.cvs.sourceforge.net/moodle/contrib/plugins/mod/feedback/ as the master copy.

Martin - As best as I can tell, all of the changes that I had previously (months ago) suggested to Andreas are included but the changes do no show in CVS because the code was added to CVS after the changes were made. In other words there is no diff history available but the functionality is all there. I think we are all in agreement that the CVS version in CONTRIB is the master copy. Peace - Anthony

As an educator working with a K12 groups in various schools, I feel this is a very necessary improvement. Thanks to all of you for your investment. It is so imperative that we collect student demographics, background use of technology, course evaluations, etc. I have always used the quiz and tried to make it nongraded, but this is really a pain.

The challenge that brought me to this board was an attempt to view questionnaire module responses by group.

Thanks again and greetings from New Mexico, USA.

A number of Feedback bugs are logged here:

http://tracker.moodle.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?component=10204&sorter/field=priority&mode=hide&reset=true&pid=10033&sorter/order=ASC

Moodle HQ are busy working on core stuff this week but these bugs really need to be fixed for 1.9.

Martin - I sent a Moodle message to Andreas to see if he might be able to provide a timeframe as to when he might start looking at the above list. I suspect that Andreas would welcome any patching you or Skodak would like to do. In particular, I'm thinking of things like deleting obsolete files, language strings, etc. Whatever works best for you all at Moodle HQ. Keep up the good work and if I can fix any of them between classes I will. Peace - Anthony

MartinD - In response to the question about using the question code I've been pondering and I wonder if the argument could be made that the feedback module is following the model of the database module which has a set of directories for the various field types. It seems that Andreas is saying that we are really not getting answers to questions as receiving data of a specific type from a user that then gets summarized rather than analyzed for correctness. Taking this one step further, I wonder if the database activity could be used to simulate a feedback. Obviously it would not be as user friendly in terms of setting it up because I find the database module templates to be complicated for the average user. But, I do think something similar could be accomplished if we added some of the summary functionality to the database module. In light of this, do you think that the database module should make use of the question code? I'd be interested in what folks think. There seems to be a subtle distinction here between asking a question and getting data from the user. Let me know if you want me to get a professional philosopher involved in the conversation Peace - Anthony

MartinD, can you give us any ihnts into whether this module will or will not be included in the moodle 1.9 release, or, if not in any of the future moodle releases?

Pieterjan - I know that the feedback module will NOT be included into Moodle 1.9; however, it is still being considered for 2.0. Work is being done to evaluate and update the code. Peace - Anthony

MartinD has indicated that this will not be included in Moodle 1.9; however, it is still being considered for 2.0

Feedback is now in HEAD, ready for further work towards 2.0.

Thanks Andreas and congratulations on getting a major module into Moodle!

congratulations! the fun begins now :-D

We have been reviewing the Feedback module and the Questionaire module for a while now and I'd like to add my two cents. I think that adding Feedback instead of Questionaire is a mistake. It would not take much developement to improve the user interface if that is what is the problem. I just think that Feedback is not as complete as Questionaire. That's my two cents.

Matthew - I hear what you are saying and would like to assure you that we are hoping to provide equivalent functionality. This will probably be an ongoing discussion about how to make this happen but I think things will move forward. Please continue to be part of that discussion. Peace - Anthony

My two cents, too.
Moodle has no tools in the core to collect information from user.
The only one is the database module that was thought for different use.
Feedback collect ONE feedback and no more.
My +1 to support the great work that Mike and Joseph are doing on the re-factored questionnaire, my +1 to add to it a lot more features to the questionnaire and my +1 to include it in the core.
Data collection can't stay out from Moodle. That's my two cents.
I don't know if I can be part of the discussion as Anthony proposal, but if the discussion is this... I'll be happy to follow it.
Thanx

I am re-opening because feedback also has a block that accompanies it. Should the feedback block also be included in core. My inclination is that it should because that is what folks will be used to from 1.9 and otherwise it will feel like a loss of functionality or at the very least they would have the feedback module in core and the feedback block in contrib which I think would be confusing as well. In addition to adding the code for the block to core, we need to give Andreas CVS write access to it. Peace - Anthony

In the period of time since the issue of Questionnaire vs. Feedback was seriously visited my opinion has totally changed. If anyone believing the Feedback module is easier to use and more fully functional than the Questionnaire module would give Questionnaire another look, I am confident their opinion will change also. Exporting of raw data is key. Feedback module uses records with data that is not normalized (different answers contained in the same answer field separated by pipes). I have found nothing I can do through Feedback that I cannot now do and usually easier through Questionnaire. There are numerous things I can do through Questionnaire that are not available through Feedback including having the response show in the gradebook.

I was initially a big fan of the Feedback for its simplicity and ease of use. Questionnaire seemed a little intimidating on my early setups and then later I didn't want to have to add yet another extra mod/plugin. I recently did add it to my 1.9.2+ site and now I like the "advanced" options of questionnaire. In the new fall term, I have to pick one and stick with it for the year because having multiple, similar activities is confusing to 11 year olds (and adults) :-D Perhaps we will see a Feedback/Questionnaire synthesis?

Robert and Jestin - Thanks for your comment on questionnaire module. I think at this point now that the decision has been made to go with feedback that we continue down that path. For those who prefer questionnaire they can install it and disable feedback. I know that there were multiple factors considered in making the determination to include feedback rather than questionnaire. They are both great modules. I find myself, like Jestin, hoping that we will be able to build up whatever functionality is missing in feedback so that we have something that is simple to use and fully functional. I simply reopened the issue because the feedback block was not added and I did not want it to be overlooked. Thanks for your input. I look forward to seeing Moodle 2.0 move forward. Peace - Anthony

This is a great disappointment and I urge Moodle HQ to reconsider. The decision seems to be quite aged, much has occurred since then and Moodle 2.0 must be a good year away. Just came away from a week with instructional technologists from a bunch of schools. Many of them compared the two modules and everyone returned the same result – they liked the Questionnaire much better. Please re-open the discussion and invite others to provide contemporary input. Being a "core" module for Moodle is important in sustainability, backups, upgrades, etc. I wouldn't want to trivialize this issue by suggesting it is merely just a matter of disabling one and using the other.

I agree with Puffer.
I am a questionnaire lover since, at least, a couple of years even if I believe the Feedback has to be part of Moodle too.
What's about a "choice" on moodle.org for some weeks?

Robert and Daniele - Thanks again for sharing your perspectives. I suspect that we agree that there should be only one such activity in Moodle core. I know that there are good arguments on both sides. As I understand it the discussion is closed; however, I will explore how best we might move forward. I certainly do not want to trivialize your experiences, etc. Peace - Anthony

Absolutely Questionnaire as it exists now is much superior to Feedback. The reports are better, it is much more flexible in types of questions, the ability to specify number of decimals in numerical questions, as opposed to the hardwired "round to two places" in feedback. The user interface is in my opinion batter than Feedback. Why does feedback need an "item number" field in the form and yet one can still move items around without going back to the form?
Please reconsider this "decision".

Well, here is the story.

A long time ago (almost three years!!!) we had to decide on one of these, and after some discussion (<a href="http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=52861">this one</a>!) the consensus at that time was clesrly for Feedback to be standard (note that carrying both modules in core is simply not an option).

Feedback had enough features and an interface people liked plus cleaner, more Moodley code that programmers liked (to ensure people built more in future).

Questionnaire was a bit of a Frankenstein module at the time with an awkward interface borne of it being built around PhpESP.

So finally Feedback got into core over a year ago (where it is now) awaiting the next release. It's working fine there, just needing a few tweaks to polish it up (in my opinion). Everyone knew this was now a core module, and there is a 1.9 version that can be used now, with no fear of losing data in an upgrade to 2.0 later.

Meanwhile, development continued heavily on Questionnaire. (This makes me sad because I would love to have seen that effort going into the one we'd chosen here instead).

Questionnaire is now a lot more Moodley and usable. However, I just had a quick skim and still see some problems, such as non-strict XHTML (hard-coded styles, tables for layout), all the questiontypes being crammed into one file instead of being pluggable, no inline documentation etc. So it's not perfect, and needs quite a bit work to review it properly and polish it up for 2.0.

If we switched to Questionnaire now it would

• upset a lot of people who had counted on Feedback being standard
• be quite a lot of extra work, with more cost and more delays to 2.0

I would do it if there was an OVERWHELMING vote to do this, but otherwise it just doesn't seem to be fair.

I would much rather see a clear analysis/specification of the bugs and missing features from Feedback so we can direct some effort into improving that module.

Ciao Martin and thanks for your comment.
I agree with you when you talk abut problems of questionnaire and upset of people.
Let me provide my two cents of contribution leaving here my view point.
What people (teachers) ask (to me) is a way to get data from students. People (teachers) ALWAYS ask for A LOT OF extra features.
The basic one are:
-> the field "other" in multiple choice
-> the rate question (as it is defined in the questionnaire)
-> the conditional branching as I asked in http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=90901
-> restricted fields as I asked in MDL-17223
-> editing of sent record by the teacher
-> date with only months and year
-> date field to store date of birth of people born before 1971 (MDL-9046)
...and some more

I also tried to ask for custom development of what my institution needs but... (I am available to continue this conversation privately, if you want. I still have the list of requirements I asked for.)

My problem is that almost all I need is in the database module or in feedback or in questionnaire BUT IT DOESN'T EXIST a module providing MOST of what people ask me. What I wish to Moodle is only to have a module allowing us to provide a good answer to people. I don't care if its name is feedback or questionnaire or database or a different one.
I write this because I think to be a Moodle lover. Peace.

Hi @all,

I think the feedback-module is not "the non plus ultra". There are a lot of missing features. Some of them could be integrated without to reduce the usability a lot. Some features are item-related so they can integrated by changing the item-plugins or introduce new plugins. All are invited to create new plugins .
Other features e.g. the conditional branching have to implemented in the feedback-module self. I think it would be great to have.

(sorry, for my bad english)
Andreas

I made a FIRST DRAFT of... what, IMO, is important in questionnaire that is not in feedback.
I also added the opposite (what is important in feedback that is not in questionnaire) and
what is missing from feedback and questionnaire (but maybe present in database module).

In my opinion by improving this list with all the contributions of all moodlers enjoying/using these two modules, we can provide a suggestion about what should be done.

I apologise if this first draft don't care about your needs/opinions or whether it is not as accurate as you would like to see. Please, fell free to 100% change it. Peace.

Thanks Daniele - I like the comparison between the feedback and questionnaire modules. I actually did a presentation at a MoodleMoot last year on that; however, as noted a lot has changed since then. Would you be willing to take the items missing in feedback and make feature requests or improvement requests for the feedback module in the tracker? Then we can get to work on increasing the functionality of the module to meet an even greater diversity of needs. I am grateful to both those who have worked on and contributed to the feedback and questionnaire modules. Peace - Anthony

of course, Antony.
I'll try to do my best as soon as I can.

In the mean time, may I ask you to take my first attachment off. It is totally useless.
Ciao.

From Anthony's latest comment I'd almost get the impression we've gotten the "bum's rush". This latter-day discussion has only just started and it appears a conclusion has been reached. Perhaps there will be many more folks who''d like to weigh-in on it and show overwhelming support for the Questionnaire module. I know not what it would take to get Questionnaire up-to-speed but I certainly know there are exhaustive shortcomings in Feedback. Daniele's list starts it off... while our group of instructional technologists have included additional comparison points. I've included it in my attachment above.

Daniele's ++

Robert - Please know that it is certainly not my intention to give you the impression of a "bum's rush". In my mind the decision was reached quite a while ago; however, Martin seems characteristically willing to listen to and receive input from the community. From having heard about the experiences in other communities and how they sometimes react during periods of disagreements, I hope that we can avoid the "camp" mentality where it is one group against another. Ultimately, we all want what is best for the Moodle community. Sometimes I have seen groups that end up wasting a lot of energy and effort going back to debate a decision that has already been made rather than putting that effort and energy into moving forward and that seems like a loss to the community. So that is what I am hoping to avoid. I do recognize that there are other times when it can really be beneficial to re-assess a decision when new facts and situation warrant it. Such may be the case with the work that was done with questionnaire. On my production sites, I have usually had both questionnaire and feedback modules. I like them both very much and have hoped that we might work toward some type of united solution. From my perspective the best way of doing that was to start with the feedback module and add to it the missing functionality. So I do not see this so much as a debate between the feedback and questionnaire module but rather what is the best way to get the desired functionality into Moodle core. I too am concerned about the impact that changing our mind might have on the larger community if we were to do so. As you can tell there are multiple considerations but I trust that working together we can sort out the best way forward. Peace - Anthony

p.s. @Daniele - no need to worry about the useless attachment. I believe there is a preference not to delete things unless there is a serious reason to do so (for example, if you had uploaded a document containing a password or something like that).

Hi Anthony,
I am with you all the way that there be no "camp" mentality forming around this issue. Unfortunately, through my recollection and revisiting of many of the discussions prior to the original decision, it certainly would appear that a "camp" mentality may have been in place at that time.

I would very much be interested in your comments on the posted attachment – IMO the differences between Feedback and Questionnaire are enormous. Your perspective would be very helpful. If Feedback can be as functional and presentable as Questionnaire then I have no problem with it. Under the current state of affairs I have no choice but to implement Questionnaire and encourage the other schools with which I'm associated to do the same, the shortcomings of Feedback are simply too immense.

I suggest to make a specs page in the docs to discuss/decide about all the extra features for feedback, like it is done for other parts of Moodle, may be the comment page of http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:Feedback.
When the decision was made to get Feedback in core, I have converted (= retyped) everything we had at that time from questionnaire to feedback and learned to live with the limitations. I'm one of the people who would like to stick with taken decisions. That way camps are not necessary

I'd like to second Robert Puffer's comment above. We rely very heavily on Questionnaire to run mid-term evaluations (as well as for more traditional questionnaires) throughout the year, and we made a decisison to use Questionnaire over Feedback because the latter lacked a huge amount of functionality. Like Robert and Danielle, the module title isn't the concern here; if Feedback can offer everything Questionnaire does and becomes a part of core, we can live with that, but if it doesn't, it essentially creates a situation in which we have to use two mostly-overlapping modules to accomplish things (or turn off a core one and continue with an add-in).

That said, it seems that the proper path here would be to bring Feedback up to snuff, and then work on making it a part of core; adding something to core (whether Feedback, Quesionnaire, or anything else) when it's still not ready for prime time is something that can only hurt the overall product.

I responded to the specifics of Martin's post here: http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=52861&parent=550625.

IMO, the best path for Moodle core is a module called "Survey", that is whatever the best features of Questionnaire and Feedback are in one stable module. The current 'Survey" module would then simply be a standard pre-configured version of this delivered with Moodle. And, this path would require an automatic transition from the module being used to the new one (that is questionnaire => survey / feedback => survey / survey => survey).

mike

Please don't take any of my comments out of their proper context. I am ALL for making good decisions. I believe a great deal of ambiguity surrounds some decisions made "on behalf of the Moodle community". An important note is that Feedback is NOT in core,... you do not get it when you download the latest. It is SLATED for core in 2.0 (year away?). So is TinyMCE. Are we now stuck on that or would we change our minds (made up in October, 2008) if we found that CKEditor provided a great deal more functionality/ stability (like stable support for Safari)? Will we be willing to move away from the intended path toward the next iteration of a Wiki if something comes along that is far better? What will we be producing as an end-product if we're unwilling to change our minds in the face of changing circumstances BEFORE we add it to core. How will we deal with modules ALREADY added to core... give them "grandfather" status so their integrity may always reside beyond question? Just MHO.

to Robert Puffer:
> Copy existing (is it useful?) YES
Are you sure?

Wherever in mooodle you are not allowed to reuse/copy instances of modules.
We all are accustomed to make a backup of what we need in the course and to restore it appending it to the original course.
I don't want to say it is not a good feature but... it is totally out from Moodle standards.
BTW: The duplication of instances has been requested in MDL-11288

Robert - Avoiding that "camp" mentality can be tough when you have one group advocating for one solution and another group advocating for another. I am glad to see that this discussion seems to be remaining focused on the best way to help move forward and provide a survey-like module. Unfortunately the survey module already exists and is something very different so we cannot use that name. In any case, I like Koen's idea of creating a development page in the tracker. And we can discuss things there as well. Your document may serve as a helpful beginning to that. Here are some brief comments to the first section:

"question name for the header of the columns in the download document" - Do we need to have a separate question name or could we just use the question text? I know that we have question names so it would seem to be consistent with the question part of Moodle. In fact, I know at one point MD really wanted the feedback module to simply use the question database. As I recall Andreas had some convincing ideas for why using Moodle questions might not be best.

-> "Other" option for multiple choice questions (radio button)
-> "Other" option for multiple choice questions (check boxes)
my +1, flexibility sounds like a great idea. By "other" option we are talking about generating a text box that users could write in an option.

-> rate question (with excellent "Type of rate scale")
I am not 100% what rating a question means. Could we describe a usage scenario?

-> number of integer and decimal digits for numerical questions
my +1, sounds like a reasonable request and not too dififcult

-> "Min. forced responses" and "Max. forced responses" for check boxes question
my +1, sounds reasonable and simple enough to implement

-> multiple (periodic) submit allowed for "not anonymus" users
would we then want to be able to do comparisons to track how a user's feedback changed over time?

-> Save/Resume option
+10 - I think this is important, we have this functionality with the quiz module and it would be good to have it with feedback

-> custom themes (is it useful?) YES
I cannot think of any other modules that have custom themes for that particular activity module. I know questionnaire does this and it is nice but I think I would like the idea of it being themed just like everything else. Perhaps with the option of selecting a theme for a particular feedback like the way that a user selects a theme but this would be something that if the system admin would have to allow just like having course themes and user themes. For me the important thing is consistency.

-> Public
What does public mean?

-> Copy existing (is it useful?) YES
I thought that we could create a template that others could use that function like copy existing? Am I misunderstanding what this means?

Peace - Anthony

Daniele pointed me to this interesting discussion (thanks Daniele): I especially focused on conditional branching, we did some works on this, probably it could be interesting as a proof of concept.

Ciao Antony,
to provide an explanation of "public" I went to copy it from the excellent help files written by Joseph Rézeau for "questionnaire" module.
As far as I know, it is the best description I have access to.

Public - can be shared among courses.
If a questionnaire has already been created (in another course on the same Moodle site) with the "public" setting, then you may use that "public" questionnaire in your own course(s). The number of settings available to such questionnaires is limited and you cannot edit its questions nor view the responses.
Example.- If a public questionnaire has been created in course A, it can be "used" in courses B, C, ... All the responses from courses A, B, C, ... are collected in the public questionnaire created in course A (the original course where it was created) and are viewable there by the person (admin or teacher) who originally created it.

Ciao Antony,
a rate question is a question described by a table.
It is useful to order/score a list of elements.

For each column of the table (in the first row) it is written a score.
For each row of the table (in the first column) it s written the name of an element that has to be evaluated (ordered/scored).
In each cell of the table it is present a radio button. By selecting the radio button in row = r and col = c you are saying that the element described in (row = r, col = 1) is scored with the value described in (row = 1, col = c).

Attached is the help page of "questionnaire" module that is better than whatever I may try to write (and it is in English and not in myenglish ;-P)

+10 to have a 100% stable feedback module, completely integrated and working within Moodle 2.0, without new features at all. Stage 1.

Then, once everything is rock-solid, analyse what can be added, what not and on. Stage 2.

In any case, -10 to blow feedback module with all the questionnaire "extras" before having it completely integrated. That will produce much better code and will keep cool Andreas Grabs (and his hyper-cool work) centred / centered.

Just IMO. Ciao

Thank you for your time and energy spent on this. It's quite the growing pain for my users as well. We have preferred questionnaire with our production env for the last year. The fundamental fact is that if feedback has a better foundation with less function at the moment, then it would be a better place to start. There is just one request that I would add to the list of needed functionality for future improvement, and that is the option for a submission grade.

Brandt - Thanks for your input and understanding. Yes, I agree a submission grade for feedback would definitely be helpful. If a tracker issues does not already exist for that feature please create one and then let me know as I would like to vote for it (or possibly even write a patch if I have a moment - provided Andreas does not beat me to it). Peace - Anthony

I created a sub task - Key: MDL-19771

Martin - Should this be re-assigned to Andreas? I re-opened it so that we might add the feedback block which is part of the feedback package. Just wanted to make sure that gets in before 2.0 is released. Peace - Anthony

Because I need submission grades I've just migrated all of my feedbacks for our institution's pre-registration process to questionnaires. Due to the new questionnaire interface (and especially due to the "Save as a new question feature") I was able to do a massive amount of work in a very short time. In so doing I gained a good deal of additional flexibility as can be noted in this issue's attached documents and subtasks.

Bob - Thanks for sharing your experience - this sort of documentation is very helpful! Peace - Anthony

The feedback system is not only a module it has also a related feedback block. We are missing this block in the dev core package.

What is the idea of this block? Most educational organisations use standard evalution forms and reports. They want to define centrally the courses that should use these forms.

The block gives the option to create a standard evaluation form at the start page and to add these forms to courses via a course block. Teacher can't change these forms. This is a difference to the template functionality.

Please add it now.

Ralf - Thanks for helping to explain the feedback block. Andreas has asked me to do the same and I wanted to refresh my memory before doing so. I do think that if the module is to be included in core then the block should be as well since the two are typically installed as a package. I'll try to come back and better explain the block but you have given a good start. As I understand it, both the block and module would be disabled by default in 2.0 even though they are present. Peace - Anthony

Anthony,

Yes I think the functionality should be complete in 2.0. Disabling is a good starting point.
Who can addthe block to the dev version and give Andreas access for developing?

Ralf

Ralf - Andreas has access to the module which you can see at http://moodle.org/cvs/ and we can work this out for the block as well; however, I have been hesitant to just add the block without Martin's approval. I just want to make sure there is not a reason why they may not want it there. I'm not sure if Petr will want to review the block first. So let's just wait and see what happens. Peace - Anthony

Hi, including the block would be great. The code in the block is very small. Almost all of the code using by this block is already included in the feedback-module and works already.
Andreas

Hello Ralf, Anthony and Andreas,
I'm sorry, but I do not understand the need for a Feedback Block at all. Can someone provide a concrete example of how it would be used?
Thanks, Joseph

What happens in the real world (at least ours and several other schools of which I'm aware) is that "course evaluations" are a standardized set of questions "with additions made by each department as they deem fit". This is why the Feedback block doesn't work for us and we've never implemented it. In point of fact, the Feedback module doesn't work well for us either, it has ceased being used since our faculty evaluating it deemed the Questionnaire module to be much more flexible and a better organized presentation. Unfortunately the Questionnaire wasn't in as good of shape as it is now when we evaluated "evaluation tools". We could only offer the Feedback at that time which was rejected for a third party program. I'm certain the current Questionnaire module would have won out since nobody's greatly pleased with the third-party module. But... you know how decisions are made – once they're made, nobody wants to consider a change (like perhaps including the Questionnaire module into core Moodle code).

Bob - I'm not sure if you had seen http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:Czech_Hackfest_2009_notes#Feedback_vs_Questionnaire but the issue was revisited and given consideration. The goal is to have a "super Survey" module available for Moodle 2.1 that will upgrade feedbacks, questionnaires, etc. Peace - Anthony

@Joseph: In real world most eductaional organizations use standard feedback forms. They are developed for all courses or for all courses of an department or type of course. They don't want that teacher change or add individual questions to this form. Its not a problem that a teacher creates an additional evaluation form.
These standard forms are analysed globally for different reports.
What did the block? He shows at a special place that there is an evaluation for this course. Its different from a template of an evaluation. The teacher decides if a template is visible or not. The idea is that it gets a separate place, defined by administration. We have a lot of organisations using this feature since years.

@Robert: I can't see the questionnaire module as much more flexible.

About Czech Hackfest discussion: This discussion, we heard about weeks later in the docs, was a discussion with a protagonist of the questionaire module. The developer of the Feedback module were not at the meeting. so it was not possible to discuss it in deep.

Apparently the answer to my question of 30 April 2010 has been given by Andreas here:
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=149208

Moving to the DEV backlog, changing affected version to 2.1 and marking as triaged.

Changing affected version because it should be something already released, not a future version especially when the feedback is already in 2.0...

Petr - I would actually argue that this issue should be closed. It was opened back in 1.8 with the request to pull the Feedback Module into core which was fixed in 2.0. I had reopened the issue just to ensure that we did not forget about the feedback block. Now that we have done that, I think we can resolve and close the issue. If the block and modules need some more attention, then let's create a separate issue to review the code. The affects version, as I understand it, is the first version when the change was requested. This request, as far as I am concerned is not to port feedback back to 1.9 since it already exists in contrib and folks can install it as they wish. Peace - Anthony

The problem with reopening is that the issue is not included in the release notes, the block itself is not necessary part of feedback, sorry. Half fixed issues are really bad, in fact it is not possible now to file a half pull request, after every commit some issues has to be closed.

Affected version is the current version that is not released yet, it may not make much sense for new features (in that case it usually means the last version the feature is not yet in or anything earlier). The fix version is the version it is fixed in. the fix version is now stable or dev backlog, only when the pull request is file we set there the exact version

Another problem is that we should not create feature request subtasks in this issue - because again it is definitely not necessary to complete all subtasks in order to consider feedback imported in 2.0

Solution proposal:
1/ create new meta issue for new Feedback features (or make all subtasks separate issues) Please note new features are not likely to be accepted to 2.0.x
2/ create new issue for the feedback block itself
3/ finally close this issue so that it appears as fixed and part of the release notes of Moodle 2.0

Thanks

Petr - I have created MDL-26048 as a new meta issue and assigned all of the incomplete subtasks previously associated with this issue to the new meta issue. The new meta issue is assigned to Andreas (this issue was assigned to Martin). Hopefully this will help to simplify things. Peace - Anthony

Thanks a lot everybody, closing. Please file new issues if necessary.

Ciao