Moodle Community Sites

Would be nice for pages like http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:Quiz_item_analysis_calculations (I'll search and replace $$ -> <math> </math> if you fix this.)

Installing the whole required "math stack" in server6 (see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Enable_TeX )

Seems to be working in test: http://docs.moodle.org/test/Development:MediaWiki_TeX_test

(once more Selinux was preventing installed stuff to work - external executables, so I configured it so latex executables - all - to be executed by apache: chcon -R -t httpd_sys_script_exec_t /usr/local/texlive/2008)

If tests are ok... this change will be applied to production when MDLSITE-657 is ready to go to production.

Ciao

WOW!

I had to add some test symbols...

"That's one small step for a man (Eloy), one giant leap for mankind (people using mathematics)"

Thank You, Eloy!

Eloy... The enable_tex link includes a trailing paren.

This is a step forward.... but as I understand it this does not use Blahtex so we still are not producing MathML and this does nothing about the requests to provide access to asciimathml (for which their is an extension as well http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ASCIIMath4Wiki)....

A solution to display Math was raised a little less than a year ago (http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-354) but there was no further discussion there or in the forums.....

So, yes, I have to agree with Mauno that it is nice to have math notation in the wiki, but it would be nicer to have asciimath........... so I am looking forward to the next step ;=} and I am concerned that implementation of the tex filter will kill implementation of asciimathml .....

Marc, ASCIIMath4Wiki.php in http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ASCIIMath4Wiki does not use image fallback, does it? (but it can be added...)

On the other hand if some (any) server of moodle.org had mimetex running as public mimetex.cgi we could also use asciimathml and asciisvg (graphs) through some theme (not the default theme anyway) in a special demo course for mathematics, physics, chemistry etc... that would help in testing fully functional image fallback scripts for IE that still does not support mathml.

One more wish - is there any hope of getting TexLive also to moodle.org instead of current MimeTex? The quality of LiveTex 2008 characters is from another planet compared to current mimetex.

TexLive 2008 here in moodle.org is much faster than TexLive 2007 on my test server (Debian) - still asciimathml would be much faster if pages have a lot of TeX and resolution of TeX image can never be as good as mathml rendered as ascii (or unicode) characters.

Still if you look that test page http://docs.moodle.org/test/Development:MediaWiki_TeX_test the quality of those tex characters is VERY GOOD

And finally a big Thank You for those people who are responsible for the performance of docs.moodle.org - that latex test page is really rendered so fast that it is hard to believe it has TeX at all...

Hi Marc,

I didn't know anything about ASCIIMath4Wiki (trailing parent in your link too, btw! :-P ). The solution used is the "official" one for mediawiki, as far as I know. It isn't one extension, but part of core and involves installing the whole "texlive stack" and other dependencies.

About Moodle, I remember another bug talking about ASCIIMath (I remember I participated requesting information long time ago). If I'm not wrong it was CONTRIB-384. But it's unrelated to this mediawiki stuff completely.

Anyway... I'm not an expert in all those Math-alternatives... so I really don't know which is the best solution and so on.

Mauno,

about speed, after doing some tests, I discovered that formulas are only rendered once (when the page is edited), and cached in a special images/math dir for further usage in next requests.

And yes, it looks really better than MimeTex. B-)

About Moodle, I can imagine one alternative Texlive filter (and also an ASCIIMath one, Marc), but I'm not sure about how they should be implemented (separated filters, fallback between them... and so on). Feel free to discuss about that in forums... you are the gurus of that thing.

Ciao

P.S.: "That's one small step for a wiki, hope won't be a giant trip for the Community" :-D :-P

Mauno,

Unfortunately, Steve Chan has not updated ASCIIMathPHP for quite a while, so it does not reflect the additions made by David and Peter as seen in asciimathml 2.0 with fallback..... but, as you note, it could be added.....

Their are tracker items out there to do just what you suggest, i.e. add asciimathml via a special theme to Moodle.org: http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDLSITE-599 - no action has been taken, though as you note this would not be involved and would not effect much... and I would be happy to offer up a mimetex target as long as I am under utilizing my bandwidth (and the rise in usage would in fact evidence demand for other implementation .....)

Eloy,
Test just went belly up.....
Failed to parse (Missing texvc executable; please see math/README to configure.): \int_{-\infty}^{\infty e}{-x^2}\,dx = \sqrt{\pi}
Now that things are out of whack I can't determine, but texvc is supposed to actually be able to produce MathML, so is that what you did or were you generating pngs?

Eloy,

My bad, got the two test pages mixed up, sorry about that. But now I see that you are using png files.... can you do a parallel set up to produce MathML?? (you started this ;=} LOL )

CONTRIB-384 is tracker ID for the proposal to add asciimathml to Moodle 2. You asked some questions and there were some asnwers posted and it got pushed to MD who said he wanted to "look at it for 2.0" but I don;t know that anything has actually been done by anyone to take what Mauno has proposed and mode it into HEAD or offer it up on Moodle.org.

There is an issue raised in the blahtex discussion about issues with mediawiki producing html while MathML relies on xhtml and so I am wondering how effective texvc->MathML will be.

Of course, another thing you could do is hack mediawiki so that it calls asciimathml.js last, and that should work without really integrating anything else.....

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Blahtex/Embedding_Blahtex_in_MediaWiki

Ah - Cache is amazing!!!

About TexLive in moodle.org - on my test server I just checked the default paths from Administration > Modules > Filters > TeX Notation

Path of latex binary - /usr/bin/latex
Path of dvips binary - /usr/bin/dvips
Path of convert binary - /usr/bin/convert

and TexLive was alive - but in my case those files were on the same server as moodle.

My additions to AsciimathML scripts are always risky - it is easy to imagine that some other javascripts can have conflicts with modified Asciimathml.js scripts - just like some odd behaviours in TinyMCE integration could not be predicted.

But the good thing is that also the original scripts of Peter Jibsen and David Lippman can be freely used and rewritten and both of those gentlemen have previous experience of moodle and David has written a marvellous graph plugin for TinyMCE that works nicely in moodle 2.0 - which of course is not yet stable but on my test site and local PC they have been ready for some months - waiting for the big day when moodle 2 is no more unstable...

Marc, I think I'll need to install mediawiki to my test server next to check how well that ASCIIMath4Wiki works.

I added some more test tags to http://docs.moodle.org/test/Development:MediaWiki_TeX_test and everything is working PERFECT!

Marc and Eloy,

I installed the latest Mediawiki with Maths and tested extension ASCIIMath4Wiki - it's not good...

That old script breaks totally IE and all other browsers that can't handle MathML - it works in FF but has only a limited subset off tags given by the current AsciiMathML
ASCIIMath4Wiki does not have AsciiSVG (graphs) or calculator and it does not support image fallback. The whole script should be rewritten.

Texvc and LiveTex work very well and can render all AMS latex tags - the only problem is that images take some hard disc space but performance otherwise is good and quality of those png images if very good.

Mediawiki can handle both unicode characters and html entities and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Formula gives easy to use examples for writing equations. I can check if it is possible to write a different extension for Asciisvg or use a similar php script that Peter and David have used for converting asciisvg to png (supports all modern browsers) like http://www.imathas.com/editordemo/php/svgimg.php?sscr=-7.5,7.5,-5,5,1,1,1,1,1,300,200,func,sin(x),null,0,0,,,black,1,none or if it is possible to use some modified (java)scripts directly

I really like this texvc/LiveTex combination...

Oh, one more note: the previous comment

"I really like this texvc/LiveTex combination... "

does not mean that I don't like AsciiMathML - I would love to see asciimathml/asciisvg some day in moodle or moodle.org implemented by theme or rewritten filter.

The scripts need just more testing and a public (mimetex or some other) image fallback server - but that's another story...

Mauno,

Now that you have mediawiki installed, I think you can easily invoke asciimathml much like you did for Moodle by editing the the theme file, or the SkinTemplate which is called and extended (I think the former would be more manageable, especially since we are talking having a special theme for asciimathml in Moodle.org.......)

I have attached a zip of a simple theme and you will find clean_and_blue.php which essentially constructs the page. You will have a similar file for each theme just as is the case with Moodle. Adding the reference to asciimathml below the meta tags should work.... though of course one could argue that manhandling the code so that the script is called like other js may be more elegant, I think KISSS should be the guide in approaching this.....

One nice thing about this simple approach is that it does not require additional wiki tagging. I am a bit concerned about

I also suggest you take a look at the tinyMCE patch http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WYSIWYG_editor as an option to extend SEE to Moodle docs - LOL

Mauno,

I did a demo of my solution here: http://edtech.alaskapolicy.net/index.php?title=AsciiMathML_in_mediawiki by simply inserting a reference to asciimathml in the MonoBook.php file.

I was pretty sure the asciimath extension would be a disappointment as it is based on the first release and has not seen any development, but if there is an interest in using a php version asciimathml for Moodle than the additional development might be worth it.....

There was another php solution offered some time ago that did very nice tex images.... problem was that it piled up all the stored images, forever.....

I think if Moodle is going to start with tex in mediawiki that we should explore providing mathml via blahtex, which I believe does a fallback much as asciimathml can. This would at least keep us moving in the MathML direction. On the otherhand, I think a down and dirty asciimathml usage with a fallback to texvc would be a very nice solution ;=}

p.s. thank for the caveat asciimath ;=} I think one of the best ways to address bugs is to put code under pressure [although you are correct in noting that there are now so many asciimathml.js files floating about that whether its via Peter's cvs, your svn, my svn or the asciimath google group we need to get some of this stuff stored and document ;=} ] , so if asciimathml works via the mediawiki theme as I suggest above I would argue that we a) add a code snippet that does a random fallback to whatever mimetex servers folks offer for this short term (I volunteer mine) and then b) explore invoking texvc as fall back as it looks like we could do that much as we did the mathtran fallback, and that then would keep all functioning on the same server.

Thanks, Marc

I tried adding javascript to Monobook.php once yesterday but obviously missed some step... and will certainly try again...

Marc,

I visited your test site and asciimathml seems to work there but you did not seem to use latex ( <math> ... </math> ) there... maybe my failure yesterday was caused by some conflict between these - latex was rendered but asciimathml was not properly translated.

Anyway I will test it again - tomorrow... or tonight if you-know-who does not suggest something else to do...

Marc,

thank you for the editor link too - FCKEDitor seems to be more stable in Mediawiki http://mediawiki.fckeditor.net/index.php/FCKeditor_integration_guide but I will test these both next week on my test server too.

I never thought we could use same tools in mediawiki as we use in moodle.

Mauno,

My comment in note above about wiki tagging was meant to refer to use of tags like <math> ...</math> which as you recall were also a way of implementing asciimath .

I did not implement tex in the edtech wiki, just asciimath. If you bring up the page in chrome you will see it parsed by mimetex and there are a couple of klunkers, but it is not bad at all.....

I shouldn't think that texvc and asciimathml would even acknowledge each other's existence as I have set it up. the tex extension is simply parsing the contents of the math spans, while I don't think asciimath even addresses the page contents until after the math spans are processed..... BUT... are you using a version of asciimathml that is writing amspans as that would certainly account for the problem.... I will post my MonoBook.php file here so you can compare.

Actually, there was an earlier tinyMCE extension that was even less stable ;=}... but the point I was trying to make is that I think we could implement SEE across the moodle spectrum.

I need to find some time to experiment with the texvc command line by way of fallabck, but I am truly swamped.....

Mauno,
Here is my MonoBook.php file for comparison.

Eloy,
Would it be possible during some limited window to implement this on the moodle wiki for testing (I am on -9 GMT, Alaska Standard Time)? I'd like to confirm whether the problem Mauno had with asciimath and texvc running together was just an artifact of his install. You could just reference my asciimath from the MonoBook.php file and turn it up for a limited time once you are certain that it won;t interfere with anything else (since its run time it should not effect anything at all except asciimathml tokenized strings and those tokens are used in the wiki. See my test wiki for demo. If things work OK, I would like to have a version of asciimathml installed somewhere on Moodle that I could access so that we could work on doing a texvc fallback

Eloy and Mauno,
I have upgraded my wiki to 1.13.4 from 1.11 and all still appeared to work with asciimath.
I then made texvc and enabled it and upload and provided some examples of how texvc does not interfere with asciimathml and vice-versa.
Finally, I went ahead and demo'd use of asciisvg on the same page.....
http://edtech.alaskapolicy.net/index.php?title=AsciiMathML_in_mediawiki
All this accomplished (as far as asciimathml) with the single reference in the skins php file.

No problems, Marc

AsciiMathML javascript works nicely together with TeX given by LiveTex - my test mediawiki is in http://korpelainen.net/mediawiki - and I added my test script to mediawiki skin after <meta http-equiv="imagetoolbar" content="no" /><![endif]--> with tags

<script type="text/javascript" src="http://korpelainen.net/AMMimetex.js"></script>

Everything between <math>...</math> was rendered by LiveTex and everything between `...` was rendered asMathML in FF and as Mimetex gif image fallback in IE, Opera and Safari (without MathPlayer). Embedding asciisvg graphs still requires some custom extension to Mediawiki - current code of Mediawiki does not allow embedding of graphs. So the version of asciimathml.js we could use here in moodle.org could be at first a modified version with fully functional features. The only problem I can see is that image fallback - if we use external cgi mimetex from your server or my server and our servers stop responding users of IE,Opera and Safari (without MathPlayer) get those "Mimetex failed to..." errors. In theory the main script can be modified to use any TeX renderer, I don't know how to use texvc for this purpose but I guess it should be possible too.

Or do they get a place holder for missing images if image fallback server stops responding... anyway the best solution for image fallback would be a script that produces possible fallback images on the same server as original code (asciimathml) is...

Here an example where LiveTex is forced to use png images and AsciiMathML is using cgi Mimetex gif image fallback. In Firefox equation is rendered as MathML and the output depends on selected font in javascript we use - in this case font family is Times New Roman, Times, serif

Mimetex is using the default font defined in mimetex.cgi itself

Marc,

if Eloy sets Mediawiki to use LiveTex in any case that image fallback for asciimathml could be done with mathtex as well. It only reguires compiling Mathtex like explained in http://www.forkosh.dreamhost.com/source_mathtex.html to use LiveTex in some server of moodle.org and in asciimathml we just need to change mimetex to mathtex with correct server path.

Summa summarum: I am very happy to see Tex based equations in moodle.org (at first in documentation and hopefully also in forums) rendered by LiveTeX 2008. If it is also possible to add asciimathml as javascript to skin of mediawiki and if it is possible to use some image fallback for that script to allow rendering images instead of MathML for those browsers that do not support MathML or do not have MathPlayer plugin installed - we can use both Tex and asciimathml for Math notations in moodle.org

I can also test integration of TinyMCE or FCKEditor to mediawiki to allow adding content and particularly equations to Mediawiki. Current mediawiki adds only <math>...</math> tags so either we need a very good documentation / examples about possible use of Maths or we need a simple plugin like dragmath or customized editor to add those equations to mediawiki - the same way like we can do it in moodle itself but using syntax of mediawiki.

Marc,

one more note - I noticed that you had used the traditional asciisvg that works really well in FF and if Adobe SVGViewer is installed. The only problem with these is that most users still have IE without MathPlayer or SVGViewer and they will see only empty box instead of graphs. The latest versions of graphs that work on all browsers - as asciisvg if browser supports asciisvg or as png image if browser does not support asciisvg - (David's graph plugin in the latest asciimathml) on the other hand need some new code or extension to mediawiki.

Anyway I'm sure we can some day in the near future use both of these.

OK - testing ready, Marc.

Download and unzip extension package FCKeditor from http://korpelainen.net/FCKeditor.zip to your mediawiki extensions folder and add

require_once( "extensions/FCKeditor/FCKeditor.php" );

to LocalSettings.php before last tags

$wgCacheEpoch = max( $wgCacheEpoch, gmdate( 'YmdHis', @filemtime( _FILE_ ) ) );

You should be able to edit mediawiki with the latest FCKEditor extension that has for the first time in history of mediawiki also Dragmath included.

I changed default format of Dragmath plugin (inside FCKEditor plugin) to add <math>...</math> tags instead of $$...$$ and if you want to change asciimathml to default format just edit

<param name=outputFormat value="MoodleTex">

in extensions/FCKEditor/plugins/dragmath/fck_dragmath.php

--------------------------------

I must still test some options - for example http://mediawiki.fckeditor.net/index.php/Sandbox does not use FCKEditor by default but it has hyperlinks
[Rich Editor] [Open Rich editor in new window] that open FCKEditor if required and
[Disable Rich Editor] that disables FCKEDitor...

--------------------------------

I guess this is not going to be an option in moodle.org anyway but it is all free code for anybody who wants to test this in test mediawikis.

...and while this tracker issue is getting long we could continue discussions elsewhere (e-mail, forums,...)

One more note: Although http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FCKeditor_(by_FCKeditor_and_Wikia) says:

"Also make sure $wgUseAjax is turned on: $wgUseAjax = true; "

I DID NOT notice any problems with FCKEditor even if I did not enable ajax. There is also this issue

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgUseAjax so I think it is better to leave ajax disabled for testing...

Marc,

that documentation about unstable TinyMCE Mediawiki extension was tangled but I got it finally to work on my test server - and all the math plugins of TinyMCE.

It might still be safer to use normal Mediawiki here in moodle.org with LiveTex (when Eloy has time to install it) and test all possible features of these mediawiki extensions and editors in our test environments - or in some public test server of moodle.org.

Init code of tinymce is totally editable but in this case all output should be checked for mediawiki... I will send you a link to my zipped package when I have tested it. This tinymce extension is much more flexible than the "stable" FCKEditor extension and if moodle 2.0 will have TinyMCE anyway it seems to be more natural optional editor to mediawiki - if needed.

Mauno,
I made a stab at starting the manifesto on google docs and was wondering whether you thought I should also integrate the discussion of dragmath in it as well.

But it sounds to me like there is no reason, Eloy, not to implement asciimath via theme for moodle docs immediately........ !

We can toy with asciimath til the cows come home (and I know they who must be obeyed know how true that is.....) but we need to get some of this stuff in production and we might as well start here and then dance about like crazy men until they do the same thing to start in moodle.org forums....

It's partly my fault... I like testing things but those things never get ready.

There might still be some open questions like which version is suitable for Mediawiki or moodle.org forums?

Peter's ASCIIMathMLwFallback.js (only AsciiMathML with image fallback - modified 1.4.7) ?

Peter's ASCIIMathML2wMnGFallback.js (AsciiMathML, LatexMathML, AsciiSVG rendered with svgimg.php somewhere) ?

Some older version (2.0.2 ?) - like previous but has traditional AsciiSVG (browser needs MathML support - empty boxes for IE) ?

Some other custom / modified / simplified / improved version for mediawiki or moodle.org forums?

Which image fallbacks should be used ( my favourite is MathTex if LiveTex is installed http://www.forkosh.dreamhost.com/source_mathtex.html ) and should they provide for eample mathTeX as a free web service or with -DREFERER=\"domain\" to restrict requests to that specific domain (moodle.org) only :

var AMTcgiloc = "http://xxxxx/cgi-bin/mimetex.cgi"; //path to (Mimetex CGI or other external/internal png/gif renderer) script that can render a TeX string
for image fallback

var AScgiloc = 'http://xxxxx/svgimg.php'; //path to php script svgimg.php for graphs IMG fallback if ASCIIMathML2wMnGFallback.js is used

What to do with smilies like , or in moodle.org that asciimathml wants to translate?

Do we need editor plugins like dragmath or Peter's plugins in http://www.imathas.com/editordemo/demo.html or can we create new simple-to-use plugins/ mediawiki extensions to allow "normal users" to add math tags or large set of examples to documentation...

How about setting up a totally different course / independent moodle environment for mathematics and scientifical notations without messing up Using moodle and other courses of moodle.org?

Mediawiki has also a very interesting extension (set of tools) http://wikisophia.org/wiki/Wikitex and sandbox in http://wikisophia.org/wiki/Wikisophia:Sandbox but most moodle sites will never be able to use features like that. On the other hand with a public external image fallback server for moodle all moodle sites would be able to use all features of LiveTex all over the world without installing Tex themselves but it could also mean a heavy load for that server if 1000000 sites suddenly start to add equations with image fallback to moodle.org mimetex/mathtex cgi server...

I think the best way to go on might be to get that different test course or test site to moodle.org first

Or maybe even a public "sandbox.moodle.org" instead of a "public sandbox" moodle.org ... http://demo.moodle.org/ ???

Mauno,

Well, you have very forcefully documented the reason I suggested we address this in a separate doc ;=}

We have hi-jacked this thread and from what Eloy has indicated in the past are talking about issues that perhaps should be hammered out elsewhere and then brought back (though as the google doc or moodle doc would be open, that is not to say it is out of public view....

I really think we need to go forward with some simple solutions that may not make everyone happy but will put the kind of technology we are talking about in production. It won't be an issue to those who are not interested in using asciimath, and for those who are interested it will further the discussion of the issues you raised.

For now I think the basic 2.x w/ asciisvg and fallback implemented for docs and for a Maths theme for forums. As I suggested a few lines of code would also implement a kind of round robin for volunteered mimetex servers until other solutions are viable (at this point I am unsure if moodle's servers can even support the current load...............) And I think that moodle should eventually provide fallback and could certainly monitor usage and then limit usage to persons using moodle.org substantively should usage get out of hand, though I think forkosh has demonstrated that this is manageable.

Of course, my pref would be an asciimath that advised the user once per session that ther user was employing a browser that did not comply with W3C standards and that they should try using better software - LOL - but that is, of course, not politically correct..... Same kind of anaysis for svg issues..... Yes, at some point I will be happy whenall is transparent for everyone, but until then I think it most important to put something simple and based on open standards out there.... and I think we can do that now and through fonts and a couple of plugins address 90% or more of all users (see, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers )

Once something is in production I think that will increase interest in participation in development etc. Let's face it, if no one complains about being left out, there is no impetus to extend..........

so I thought that working out an actual roadmap for this technology would assist eloy et al as far as the granular aspects of the proposals we have been discussing, and would also keep us perhaps from hijacking any more discussion ;=}

Hi Mauno, Marc,

i really like this sort of discussion, absolutely! I'm learning a lot about different posibilities with math notation thanks to you guys!

Anyway... I'm not sure if this place is the best one to talk about all this. Perhaps we could try some approach like:

1) Having one Docs page explaining the objectives of the math/tex notation improvements, explaining the alternatives and what they require to work, how we want to implement/support all them (automatic fallback vs configurable behaviour...), integration in editor...
2) Once we have, more or less, agreed about all that... expose that Document to the Community (in forums) to hear about it.
3) Implement

What do you think? Just a suggestion, of course.

BTW, I've already upgraded production mediawiki (english) to new version (see MDLSITE-657) and it's running the textlive 2008 approach. But that isn't important IMO. This is Mediawiki. We should focus in moodle, trying to make it better. IMO, spending time into "untested" alternatives here (mediawiki) hasn't too much sense. Apologises!

A good suggestion, Eloy.

It is very important that you have made TexLive 2008 available - we can create all commonly needed mathematical equations with it. TeXLive is much better than MimeTex or no maths at all.

Also your last comment is true - spending time for "untested" alternatives does not make sense. I have spend (wasted) years for testing all kinds of things (mostly useless) and untested scripts should never be used on production sites. Neither one of those mediawiki editor extensions was stable - it's good to test new things somewhere (sandboxes) - but not necessarely in moodle.org. Sadly I'm the worst possible person to write good documentation (my native language is Finnish)...

We have used / tested asciimathml with moodle instead of (Mime)Tex mainly because asciimathml is so much faster than Tex in Firefox and browsers that either support MathML or have mathplayer plugin istalled. The huge testpage http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:MediaWiki_TeX_test was rendered in 30 seconds without cache - it's a good result because that page has a lot of images - asciimathml would render the same page in 1-2 seconds (mathml / ascii) for browsers that support mathml, for IE without any plugins image fallback would translate asciimathml to Tex and time to render that page would most likely be longer than direct rendering of Tex with LiveTex. Asciimathml/asciisvg give us those graphs... the other side of coin is that all browsers do not support MathML / SVG and therefore we are forced to use image fallback scripts or to tell people how much better Firefox is than IE...

I agree also that we should always focus in moodle, trying to make it better - and I am sorry for getting too enthusiastic - once again.

>.... - and I am sorry for getting too enthusiastic - once again.

Please, continue that way! It's perfect!

I'm just trying to "redirect" all the progresses / tests / researches performed by you to something productive for Moodle (hence the pseudo-1-2-3-proposal above . If we could use that "enthusiasm" (and experience, knowledge...) into something "tangible" for Moodle it would be G R E A T !

Thanks and ciao

My initial work on my "manifesto" (see my comment of Mar 3 above), pending the creation of a namespace in Moodle docs for drafts, can be found here:
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddcx5b7x_316zjq2zbd5

I initially shared write perms to Mauno, but can and will invite anyone else interested in contributing (so if you want write perms, Eloy, just say so)

http://docs.moodle.org/dev/MediaWiki_TeX_test looks great so I'm assuming this issue can be closed as fixed. Thanks everyone for the discussion