Moodle
  1. Moodle
  2. MDL-22433

Allow the creation of wikis and wiki pages out of a template

    Details

    • Affected Branches:
      MOODLE_20_STABLE
    • Rank:
      6016

      Description

      First we need to think very carefully the user interface. The implementation can use the code from backup/restore, so is not a big deal... but to make it really usable is.

        Activity

        Hide
        Mark Drechsler added a comment -

        Hey Ludo,

        Even the way this functioned in 1.9 was workable - provide an HTML file as an input, and Moodle spawns all new first-pages in a wiki with it. Very useful for me when setting up group wikis which need everyone to start with tthe same template.

        Not quite sure what the enhancement is which will make this so much more complex, but happy to throw in some ideas if it would help

        Mark.

        Show
        Mark Drechsler added a comment - Hey Ludo, Even the way this functioned in 1.9 was workable - provide an HTML file as an input, and Moodle spawns all new first-pages in a wiki with it. Very useful for me when setting up group wikis which need everyone to start with tthe same template. Not quite sure what the enhancement is which will make this so much more complex, but happy to throw in some ideas if it would help Mark.
        Hide
        Mark Drechsler added a comment -

        Is Ludo still working on the Wiki in 2.0? This and three other Wiki improvements I've logged since May (five months ago now) don't seem to have been touched at all, and this one in particular is an important one for the users I speak to in terms of being able to have the Moodle wiki as something actually worth using. Shame, since the Wiki overall looks much better, but these stalled changes are having a big impact when I try and talk wikis with users upgrading to 2.0.

        Show
        Mark Drechsler added a comment - Is Ludo still working on the Wiki in 2.0? This and three other Wiki improvements I've logged since May (five months ago now) don't seem to have been touched at all, and this one in particular is an important one for the users I speak to in terms of being able to have the Moodle wiki as something actually worth using. Shame, since the Wiki overall looks much better, but these stalled changes are having a big impact when I try and talk wikis with users upgrading to 2.0.
        Hide
        Ludo ( Marc Alier) added a comment -

        Hi Mark,
        we are still behind wiki 2.0. And Jordi Piguillem is updating code on a regular basis.
        We have been very busy las two months in non moodle related issues, but we still have an eye put on the wiki and I am really aware of the things we still have to do on the wiki.

        Show
        Ludo ( Marc Alier) added a comment - Hi Mark, we are still behind wiki 2.0. And Jordi Piguillem is updating code on a regular basis. We have been very busy las two months in non moodle related issues, but we still have an eye put on the wiki and I am really aware of the things we still have to do on the wiki.
        Hide
        Mark Drechsler added a comment -

        Hi Ludo,

        Any hints on when this might get some attention?

        Thanks again,

        Mark.

        Show
        Mark Drechsler added a comment - Hi Ludo, Any hints on when this might get some attention? Thanks again, Mark.
        Hide
        Mark Drechsler added a comment -

        Just my monthly check in on whether this is still on the roadmap or not - any update appreciated.

        Show
        Mark Drechsler added a comment - Just my monthly check in on whether this is still on the roadmap or not - any update appreciated.
        Hide
        Stephen Overall added a comment -

        Any word on this issue? Page templates can transform a wiki into a real power tool in a course. I used wiki templates a lot in 1.9 and am really missing this feature in 2.0!

        Show
        Stephen Overall added a comment - Any word on this issue? Page templates can transform a wiki into a real power tool in a course. I used wiki templates a lot in 1.9 and am really missing this feature in 2.0!
        Hide
        Mark Drechsler added a comment -

        Amen Stephen - its disappointing that there hasn't been a response from the developers since November 2010.

        Show
        Mark Drechsler added a comment - Amen Stephen - its disappointing that there hasn't been a response from the developers since November 2010.
        Hide
        Stephen Overall added a comment - - edited

        deleted

        Show
        Stephen Overall added a comment - - edited deleted
        Hide
        Peter Ruthven-Stuart added a comment - - edited

        Hello, I manage two moodle 1.9 courses of 250 students in each course. For some of the tasks they work in groups of 3 using the standard wiki module. The ability to load a standard template makes this workable. Also the 1.9 Wiki understands groups, which the new version doesn't (see MDL-27037). It's not even possible to delete pages (MDL-23520). No working Wiki, no upgrade.

        Show
        Peter Ruthven-Stuart added a comment - - edited Hello, I manage two moodle 1.9 courses of 250 students in each course. For some of the tasks they work in groups of 3 using the standard wiki module. The ability to load a standard template makes this workable. Also the 1.9 Wiki understands groups, which the new version doesn't (see MDL-27037 ). It's not even possible to delete pages ( MDL-23520 ). No working Wiki, no upgrade.
        Hide
        Stephen Overall added a comment - - edited

        Hi, Ludo:

        I'm testing NWiki for Moodle 1.9 and I'm really liking everything I'm seeing-- impressive work-- except for the lack of page templating. You say here...

        http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=73492

        ...that in 2010 you had to take page templates out of NWiki for 1.9. Is that correct?

        Is there any way you can enable even just a wiki first page template for NWiki 1.9? A teacher's ability to scaffold ("sketch out" and structure) an activity through page templates is very, very important-- crucial-- in making a wiki a successful and productive learning activity. Even teaching simple wiki markup to newbie students is so much easier and obvious if they can start with a wiki page already loaded with some content-- example markup they can directly inspect and experiment with by simply hitting the Edit tab.

        Just wondering. I do appreciate the great work and talent you and your team have invested into NWiki. Thanks.

        Show
        Stephen Overall added a comment - - edited Hi, Ludo: I'm testing NWiki for Moodle 1.9 and I'm really liking everything I'm seeing-- impressive work-- except for the lack of page templating. You say here... http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=73492 ...that in 2010 you had to take page templates out of NWiki for 1.9. Is that correct? Is there any way you can enable even just a wiki first page template for NWiki 1.9? A teacher's ability to scaffold ("sketch out" and structure) an activity through page templates is very, very important-- crucial-- in making a wiki a successful and productive learning activity. Even teaching simple wiki markup to newbie students is so much easier and obvious if they can start with a wiki page already loaded with some content-- example markup they can directly inspect and experiment with by simply hitting the Edit tab. Just wondering. I do appreciate the great work and talent you and your team have invested into NWiki. Thanks.
        Hide
        Ludo ( Marc Alier) added a comment -

        We are development a possible solution for this feature request. We will pots a patch for review within the week

        Show
        Ludo ( Marc Alier) added a comment - We are development a possible solution for this feature request. We will pots a patch for review within the week
        Hide
        Ludo ( Marc Alier) added a comment -

        Stephen, we decided to lock down the development of nwiki. Now we are only addressing bugs. All development goest into Wiki for moodle 2.0

        Show
        Ludo ( Marc Alier) added a comment - Stephen, we decided to lock down the development of nwiki. Now we are only addressing bugs. All development goest into Wiki for moodle 2.0
        Hide
        Ludo ( Marc Alier) added a comment -

        Stephen, we decided to lock down the development of nwiki. Now we are only addressing bugs. All development goest into Wiki for moodle 2.0

        Show
        Ludo ( Marc Alier) added a comment - Stephen, we decided to lock down the development of nwiki. Now we are only addressing bugs. All development goest into Wiki for moodle 2.0
        Hide
        Stephen Overall added a comment - - edited

        OK. Just thought I'd ask. Good luck with your work.

        All the best...

        Show
        Stephen Overall added a comment - - edited OK. Just thought I'd ask. Good luck with your work. All the best...
        Hide
        Peter Ruthven-Stuart added a comment -

        Hello Ludo,

        Good to see that you and your team are now working on this and other Wiki related issues in version 2.

        Although this issue has been logged as a "New Feature", for me it's a bug since the ability to create wiki pages out of a template was a feature that existed in the standard Wiki module in 1.9. Upgrading to Moodle 2 only to discover that standard features have been removed is really depressing. As a Moodle Admin and an advocate of upgrading, the disappearance of standard features makes my job really hard.

        Show
        Peter Ruthven-Stuart added a comment - Hello Ludo, Good to see that you and your team are now working on this and other Wiki related issues in version 2. Although this issue has been logged as a "New Feature", for me it's a bug since the ability to create wiki pages out of a template was a feature that existed in the standard Wiki module in 1.9. Upgrading to Moodle 2 only to discover that standard features have been removed is really depressing. As a Moodle Admin and an advocate of upgrading, the disappearance of standard features makes my job really hard.
        Hide
        Stephen Overall added a comment - - edited

        I would second Peter's comments and concerns. This issue MDL-22433 is presently mislabeled and mis-prioritized (if that's a word in English).

        (1) Mislabeled: Wiki page templates "not working" is a bug, not a new feature. Wiki page templates are an old feature that needs to be brought forward from Moodle 1.9 into Moodle 2. Page templates are a very common feature found in most wikis elsewhere. From a teacher's perspective, page templates are crucial in scaffolding wiki assignments for students.

        (2) Mis-prioritized: The current inability of Wiki 2 to support page templates is literally a BLOCKER (not a minor) issue. No page templates means teachers can't effectively use Wiki 2 or for me even Moodle 2.

        I used Moodle 2.0+ in my writing classes during the Spring 2011 semester. While there's lots I like in Moodle 2, Wiki 2's current inability to support page templates (and groups fully) forced me to return in Summer 2011, Fall 2011, and onwards to using Moodle 1.9.12+ and wait until Wiki 2 is really "ready for prime time" before I try upgrading again. While I regret losing the ability to use Workshop 2.0 (functional enough now to use in live courses and a large improvement over a still usable [with caveats] Workshop 1.9), eWiki 1.9+ is actually more functional (that is to say, more usable and productive with real students in live courses) than Wiki 2 in its current state.

        I am absolutely confident the Moodle programmers and community as they have in the past will develop solutions to these challenges. In this comment here, I'm just trying to clarify and underline the importance of wiki page templates in Wiki 2.

        Show
        Stephen Overall added a comment - - edited I would second Peter's comments and concerns. This issue MDL-22433 is presently mislabeled and mis-prioritized (if that's a word in English). (1) Mislabeled: Wiki page templates "not working" is a bug, not a new feature. Wiki page templates are an old feature that needs to be brought forward from Moodle 1.9 into Moodle 2. Page templates are a very common feature found in most wikis elsewhere. From a teacher's perspective, page templates are crucial in scaffolding wiki assignments for students. (2) Mis-prioritized: The current inability of Wiki 2 to support page templates is literally a BLOCKER (not a minor) issue. No page templates means teachers can't effectively use Wiki 2 or for me even Moodle 2. I used Moodle 2.0+ in my writing classes during the Spring 2011 semester. While there's lots I like in Moodle 2, Wiki 2's current inability to support page templates (and groups fully) forced me to return in Summer 2011, Fall 2011, and onwards to using Moodle 1.9.12+ and wait until Wiki 2 is really "ready for prime time" before I try upgrading again. While I regret losing the ability to use Workshop 2.0 (functional enough now to use in live courses and a large improvement over a still usable [with caveats] Workshop 1.9), eWiki 1.9+ is actually more functional (that is to say, more usable and productive with real students in live courses) than Wiki 2 in its current state. I am absolutely confident the Moodle programmers and community as they have in the past will develop solutions to these challenges. In this comment here, I'm just trying to clarify and underline the importance of wiki page templates in Wiki 2.
        Hide
        Séverin Terrier added a comment -

        Like Stephen and Peter (and other people), i think it's really a blocker issue !

        It's a usefull feature, used a lot in Moodle 1.9, and i can't imagine doing without it...

        Show
        Séverin Terrier added a comment - Like Stephen and Peter (and other people), i think it's really a blocker issue ! It's a usefull feature, used a lot in Moodle 1.9, and i can't imagine doing without it...
        Hide
        Mark Drechsler added a comment -

        Wow,

        Its exactly one year since I added this tracker item - how time flies. Totally agree with the comments above that this is not a new feature - it is the implementation of an existing feature which is a critical one for anyone who was attempting to use templates in 1.9.

        Bitterly disappointing that this, and most other tickets relating to the wiki, appear to be permanently stalled, particularly when a well functioning wiki would seem to be a fairly elementary part of a constructionist learning model...

        Mark.

        Show
        Mark Drechsler added a comment - Wow, Its exactly one year since I added this tracker item - how time flies. Totally agree with the comments above that this is not a new feature - it is the implementation of an existing feature which is a critical one for anyone who was attempting to use templates in 1.9. Bitterly disappointing that this, and most other tickets relating to the wiki, appear to be permanently stalled, particularly when a well functioning wiki would seem to be a fairly elementary part of a constructionist learning model... Mark.
        Hide
        Michael de Raadt added a comment -

        Bumping this issue. It seems to be growing in importance.

        Show
        Michael de Raadt added a comment - Bumping this issue. It seems to be growing in importance.
        Hide
        Yvonne Hamilton added a comment -

        Would really like to see this fixed. We tried different 'work arounds' with the wiki option for this semester but it hasn't been very successful - lots of student complaints. We are removing the wiki's and replacing them will assignment uploads but with much regret.

        Show
        Yvonne Hamilton added a comment - Would really like to see this fixed. We tried different 'work arounds' with the wiki option for this semester but it hasn't been very successful - lots of student complaints. We are removing the wiki's and replacing them will assignment uploads but with much regret.
        Hide
        Séverin Terrier added a comment -

        Nearly one year later, still the same problem with Moodle 2.3.

        Our users are asking about that : in 1.9, everything was Ok, but with Moodle 2.x, you need to copy/paste the initial page for EACH user!
        And if there are a lot, it's really a pain

        Show
        Séverin Terrier added a comment - Nearly one year later, still the same problem with Moodle 2.3. Our users are asking about that : in 1.9, everything was Ok, but with Moodle 2.x, you need to copy/paste the initial page for EACH user! And if there are a lot, it's really a pain
        Hide
        Timothy Allen added a comment -

        I am coming back to Moodle development after some years and am surprised to find that the core wiki module doesn't allow templates. I remember that this was available in 1.9. It is almost 2 years since this issue was reported and I am surprised that nothing has been done as it is such a core feature.

        Show
        Timothy Allen added a comment - I am coming back to Moodle development after some years and am surprised to find that the core wiki module doesn't allow templates. I remember that this was available in 1.9. It is almost 2 years since this issue was reported and I am surprised that nothing has been done as it is such a core feature.
        Hide
        Peter Ruthven-Stuart added a comment -

        Hello, just over a year since my last comment on this issue. It would be good to get some kind of news re the Wiki, even if it was just to say that there are no plans to fix this bug.

        Mark D, I couldn't agree with you more, "a well functioning wiki would seem to be a fairly elementary part of a constructionist learning model..."

        The only good news on the wiki front that I can see is in the Roadmap doc, http://docs.moodle.org/dev/Roadmap

        It says, "Wiki - Review OUWiki as a replacement for wiki in core". Still months down the line, but at least it suggests there may be some movement.

        Show
        Peter Ruthven-Stuart added a comment - Hello, just over a year since my last comment on this issue. It would be good to get some kind of news re the Wiki, even if it was just to say that there are no plans to fix this bug. Mark D, I couldn't agree with you more, "a well functioning wiki would seem to be a fairly elementary part of a constructionist learning model..." The only good news on the wiki front that I can see is in the Roadmap doc, http://docs.moodle.org/dev/Roadmap It says, "Wiki - Review OUWiki as a replacement for wiki in core". Still months down the line, but at least it suggests there may be some movement.
        Hide
        Martin King added a comment -

        This backwards step renders many of the wiki projects I have led completely impossible. The wiki tool has become a backwater without the ability to deliver a base page.

        Show
        Martin King added a comment - This backwards step renders many of the wiki projects I have led completely impossible. The wiki tool has become a backwater without the ability to deliver a base page.
        Hide
        Mark Drechsler added a comment -

        Hi all,

        Just my annual check-in to say how disappointed that such an elementary part of a wiki tool, and something which was a 'bread and butter' component of using the 1.9 wiki for anything remotely useful, has received absolutely zero attention in two years.

        Feel the pain of all who have commented on this issue, and really wonder if the wiki will ever get the attention it deserves.

        D.

        Show
        Mark Drechsler added a comment - Hi all, Just my annual check-in to say how disappointed that such an elementary part of a wiki tool, and something which was a 'bread and butter' component of using the 1.9 wiki for anything remotely useful, has received absolutely zero attention in two years. Feel the pain of all who have commented on this issue, and really wonder if the wiki will ever get the attention it deserves. D.
        Hide
        Séverin Terrier added a comment -

        Like several other people, still waiting for this feature (working in 1.9) to be available again in 2.x...

        As specified in Tracker issue labels (see http://docs.moodle.org/dev/Tracker_issue_labels ), this one should have "lost_functionality". Perhaps it would help...

        Show
        Séverin Terrier added a comment - Like several other people, still waiting for this feature (working in 1.9) to be available again in 2.x... As specified in Tracker issue labels (see http://docs.moodle.org/dev/Tracker_issue_labels ), this one should have "lost_functionality". Perhaps it would help...
        Hide
        Andrew Nokes added a comment -

        Surprised this hasn't had more attention than it has! The ability for students to create an individual wiki that begins with pre-populated content (including scaffolding, tips, guidance, questions, styles, tables and templates) offers such a flexible activity, especially for assessment purposes!

        For example, with many vocational education and training programs, learners are often expected to complete forms and follow policy and procedures specific to their industry/organisation. Wikis, being HTML based, means that they can do a lot to replicate the 'real thing'. However, expecting a learner to replicate the template is asking too much. The teacher should be able to create this for them when building the course.

        Really hope this gets some attention soon. This would be a huge improvement!

        Show
        Andrew Nokes added a comment - Surprised this hasn't had more attention than it has! The ability for students to create an individual wiki that begins with pre-populated content (including scaffolding, tips, guidance, questions, styles, tables and templates) offers such a flexible activity, especially for assessment purposes! For example, with many vocational education and training programs, learners are often expected to complete forms and follow policy and procedures specific to their industry/organisation. Wikis, being HTML based, means that they can do a lot to replicate the 'real thing'. However, expecting a learner to replicate the template is asking too much. The teacher should be able to create this for them when building the course. Really hope this gets some attention soon. This would be a huge improvement!
        Hide
        Gordon McLeod added a comment -

        We've had to abandon plans to use wiki for our incoming 1st year students because of the lack of template functionality. We've now switched those elements of the coursework to Mahara and are currently ironing out the workflow (looking forward to a probable next version Mahara release of a more intuitive copy page action thanks to very responsive discussions with their developers).

        Show
        Gordon McLeod added a comment - We've had to abandon plans to use wiki for our incoming 1st year students because of the lack of template functionality. We've now switched those elements of the coursework to Mahara and are currently ironing out the workflow (looking forward to a probable next version Mahara release of a more intuitive copy page action thanks to very responsive discussions with their developers).
        Hide
        Stephen Overall added a comment -

        @ Andrew, all:

        I share your brief for restoring template creation to core Wiki 2 (core wiki 1.9 handled it with no problems). I won't speculate on what Moodle HQ's long silence on this issue does or does not mean.

        Personally, I've moved on and have been using quite happily the template-enabled OU Wiki contributed module. If you're using Moodle 2.3 or 2.4, then consider the OU Wiki as a solution. Simple to install, simple for students to use, great reporting, AND features full support for templates (yea!).

        https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=mod_ouwiki

        ...part of the Open University set of plug-ins

        https://moodle.org/plugins/browse.php?list=set&id=10

        Show
        Stephen Overall added a comment - @ Andrew, all: I share your brief for restoring template creation to core Wiki 2 (core wiki 1.9 handled it with no problems). I won't speculate on what Moodle HQ's long silence on this issue does or does not mean. Personally, I've moved on and have been using quite happily the template-enabled OU Wiki contributed module. If you're using Moodle 2.3 or 2.4, then consider the OU Wiki as a solution. Simple to install, simple for students to use, great reporting, AND features full support for templates (yea!). https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=mod_ouwiki ...part of the Open University set of plug-ins https://moodle.org/plugins/browse.php?list=set&id=10
        Hide
        Timothy Allen added a comment -

        Thanks a lot Stephen for mentioning the OU Wiki, I wasn't aware of it. At least we have another wiki option.

        Show
        Timothy Allen added a comment - Thanks a lot Stephen for mentioning the OU Wiki, I wasn't aware of it. At least we have another wiki option.
        Hide
        Andrew Nokes added a comment -

        Thanks @Steven. Looks like it will be a good solution for us. Unfortunately, we are on Moodle code 2.5 and so will have to wait for a new version to be released.

        Show
        Andrew Nokes added a comment - Thanks @Steven. Looks like it will be a good solution for us. Unfortunately, we are on Moodle code 2.5 and so will have to wait for a new version to be released.
        Hide
        Yvonne Hamilton added a comment -

        @Andrew. We are the same...moving to 2.5 and still so disappointed at the loss of such a great feature from Moodle core.

        Show
        Yvonne Hamilton added a comment - @Andrew. We are the same...moving to 2.5 and still so disappointed at the loss of such a great feature from Moodle core.
        Hide
        Marina Glancy added a comment -

        Changing the status to Open and removing Assignee as there does not seem to be any recent progress on the issue. In case somebody else wants to work on this issue

        Show
        Marina Glancy added a comment - Changing the status to Open and removing Assignee as there does not seem to be any recent progress on the issue. In case somebody else wants to work on this issue

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            13 Start watching this issue

            Dates

            • Created:
              Updated: