Moodle
  1. Moodle
  2. MDL-31355

Link a due date from Forum to the Calendar.

    Details

    • Type: New Feature New Feature
    • Status: Open
    • Priority: Minor Minor
    • Resolution: Unresolved
    • Affects Version/s: 2.2.1
    • Fix Version/s: DEV backlog
    • Component/s: Calendar, Forum
    • Labels:
    • Environment:
      Moodle 2.2.1+ (Build: 20120119)
    • Database:
      MySQL
    • Workaround:
      Hide

      Manually enter forum due dates into the calendar.

      Show
      Manually enter forum due dates into the calendar.
    • Affected Branches:
      MOODLE_22_STABLE

      Description

      When creating a forum, I would like to see a new item added that states:
      "Show this due date in the Calendar."

      This can go either above or below the "Restrict ratings to items with..." items, but it should not replace these "Restrict ratings..." items. Each will serve its own purpose. Currently, the forum setup webpage is lacking a connection to the calendar.

      With this approach, a forum can remain open even after the due date just in case students want to continue discussion. By also having the "Restrict dates..." field, it becomes obvious when student do not post by the due date. So I believe that all of these fields can work well together. However, maybe this post will stimulate some even better ideas.

        Gliffy Diagrams

          Issue Links

            Activity

            Hide
            Michael de Raadt added a comment -

            Thanks for suggesting this.

            If you can propose a code solution, that will help others who may have the same need and may that will increase the chance of this improvement/feature coming about sooner. If you are able to provide a patch, please add a patch label so we will spot it. Another way to raise the priority of this would be to suggest it in a forum and ask people to vote for this issue in the tracker.

            Show
            Michael de Raadt added a comment - Thanks for suggesting this. If you can propose a code solution, that will help others who may have the same need and may that will increase the chance of this improvement/feature coming about sooner. If you are able to provide a patch, please add a patch label so we will spot it. Another way to raise the priority of this would be to suggest it in a forum and ask people to vote for this issue in the tracker.
            Hide
            Rick Jerz added a comment -

            Michael, I am sorry to say that I cannot propose a code change because I am not a php programmer. It's on my list of things to learn. So we will have to wait for someone else to help.

            Show
            Rick Jerz added a comment - Michael, I am sorry to say that I cannot propose a code change because I am not a php programmer. It's on my list of things to learn. So we will have to wait for someone else to help.
            Hide
            Isuru Madushanka Weerarathna added a comment -

            Hi,

            I would like to help here. I have gone through implementing this requested feature. So far I could add an event to the calendar considering only due date for rating of the forum. That is I could add a check box 'Show due date in calendar' which enables adding the rating deadline as an event in calendar.
            But the thing is that I had to add two columns for the moodle table '[prefix]_forum' to store those necessary data. I would really like to attach a patch here, but since I am new to moodle development community I would like to know how to define my database table changes in a patch file?

            • Thanks.
            Show
            Isuru Madushanka Weerarathna added a comment - Hi, I would like to help here. I have gone through implementing this requested feature. So far I could add an event to the calendar considering only due date for rating of the forum. That is I could add a check box 'Show due date in calendar' which enables adding the rating deadline as an event in calendar. But the thing is that I had to add two columns for the moodle table ' [prefix] _forum' to store those necessary data. I would really like to attach a patch here, but since I am new to moodle development community I would like to know how to define my database table changes in a patch file? Thanks.
            Hide
            Rick Jerz added a comment -

            I appreciate you working on this item.

            I would prefer that another date item titled "Due Date" be added because I believe the "Restrict ratings" dates serves a different purpose (i.e., when posts can be rated, not when they are due). I don't know if a check box is also needed, but maybe so for consistency. If we consider the "Quiz" items, it contains both an "open" and a "close" date, along with enable. So maybe ideally, the forum should read:

            Open the forum (a date field)[]Enable
            Close the forum (a date field) []Enable

            These are suggestions, but I think any progress on this item would be helpful. I like to suggest improvements just in case it is the same amount of programming effort in either case.

            Show
            Rick Jerz added a comment - I appreciate you working on this item. I would prefer that another date item titled "Due Date" be added because I believe the "Restrict ratings" dates serves a different purpose (i.e., when posts can be rated, not when they are due). I don't know if a check box is also needed, but maybe so for consistency. If we consider the "Quiz" items, it contains both an "open" and a "close" date, along with enable. So maybe ideally, the forum should read: Open the forum (a date field)[]Enable Close the forum (a date field) []Enable These are suggestions, but I think any progress on this item would be helpful. I like to suggest improvements just in case it is the same amount of programming effort in either case.
            Hide
            Rick Jerz added a comment -

            Well, I thought more about your solution, and saw what you proposed in the moodle.org forums. Your solution would be fine.

            Show
            Rick Jerz added a comment - Well, I thought more about your solution, and saw what you proposed in the moodle.org forums. Your solution would be fine.
            Hide
            Isuru Madushanka Weerarathna added a comment -

            Hi,

            I would like to propose my code solution in abstract manner before I upload it as a patch here. Because, there are some small database changes I had to do to make success in this feature. The changes I have done are indicated as follows.
            1. I had to insert two columns for '[prefix]_forum' to identify whether this forum has a due date event in calendar and the next column will identify corresponding event id.
            2. Additional check box has been provided to enable/disable showing the due date as an event in calendar. If user has unchecked the check box which was previously checked, the corresponding event will be deleted from table '[prefix]_events'. (Need feedback on whether the good solution will be to hide the event rather than deletes it)

            However, I would like to know feasibility of adding those extra column for that moodle table whether it allowed or not. As an alternative I can even create a separate table for each forum to store information regarding events. I really appreciate someone can let me know what could be the best solution here for a database change.

            -Thanks

            Show
            Isuru Madushanka Weerarathna added a comment - Hi, I would like to propose my code solution in abstract manner before I upload it as a patch here. Because, there are some small database changes I had to do to make success in this feature. The changes I have done are indicated as follows. 1. I had to insert two columns for ' [prefix] _forum' to identify whether this forum has a due date event in calendar and the next column will identify corresponding event id. 2. Additional check box has been provided to enable/disable showing the due date as an event in calendar. If user has unchecked the check box which was previously checked, the corresponding event will be deleted from table ' [prefix] _events'. (Need feedback on whether the good solution will be to hide the event rather than deletes it) However, I would like to know feasibility of adding those extra column for that moodle table whether it allowed or not. As an alternative I can even create a separate table for each forum to store information regarding events. I really appreciate someone can let me know what could be the best solution here for a database change. -Thanks
            Hide
            Isuru Madushanka Weerarathna added a comment -

            Hi,

            I have finished the implementation of this feature. I have attached the diff file. Or you can check it from here.
            https://github.com/isuru89/moodle/tree/MDL31355_forum_rating_event_calendar

            -Thanks

            Show
            Isuru Madushanka Weerarathna added a comment - Hi, I have finished the implementation of this feature. I have attached the diff file. Or you can check it from here. https://github.com/isuru89/moodle/tree/MDL31355_forum_rating_event_calendar -Thanks
            Hide
            Barbara Taylor added a comment -

            Our instructors are use to this having this option in 1.9. How soon can we get this for 2.2.3 or 2.3.x? It seems to me that all activities should go to the calendar.

            Show
            Barbara Taylor added a comment - Our instructors are use to this having this option in 1.9. How soon can we get this for 2.2.3 or 2.3.x? It seems to me that all activities should go to the calendar.
            Hide
            Rick Jerz added a comment -

            I just upgraded to Moodle 2.4, and the new Assignments features made me think about Forums again. Also, I recently spent some time with my university's Blackboard support folks (they are trying to convince me to use Blackboard), and I noticed how disconnected the Calendar is to activities in Blackboard.

            The Moodle Forums remain disconnected to the Calendar, and the priority of getting it connected needs to be raised!

            In Moodle's 2.4 Assignments, there is now a "Cut-off date". The solution for Forums now becomes clear. The same "Cut-off date" method should be implemented for Forums, and this is how. The Forum's "Due Date" should show in the Calendar. The Forum's "Cut-off Date" should turn the rating feature off (which is what the current Due Date does). I believe that this logic provides a consistent logic with Assignments.

            Show
            Rick Jerz added a comment - I just upgraded to Moodle 2.4, and the new Assignments features made me think about Forums again. Also, I recently spent some time with my university's Blackboard support folks (they are trying to convince me to use Blackboard), and I noticed how disconnected the Calendar is to activities in Blackboard. The Moodle Forums remain disconnected to the Calendar, and the priority of getting it connected needs to be raised! In Moodle's 2.4 Assignments, there is now a "Cut-off date". The solution for Forums now becomes clear. The same "Cut-off date" method should be implemented for Forums, and this is how. The Forum's "Due Date" should show in the Calendar. The Forum's "Cut-off Date" should turn the rating feature off (which is what the current Due Date does). I believe that this logic provides a consistent logic with Assignments.
            Hide
            Rick Jerz added a comment -

            When I was at MoodleMoot West Coast (Portland) this summer, Martin Dougiamas spoke about how Forums were a high priority for improvement. He made me think about my request to link Forum Due Dates into the Calendar. At MoodleMoot, I encouraged attendees to vote for this tracker item. I am hoping that this request gets some attention.

            Show
            Rick Jerz added a comment - When I was at MoodleMoot West Coast (Portland) this summer, Martin Dougiamas spoke about how Forums were a high priority for improvement. He made me think about my request to link Forum Due Dates into the Calendar. At MoodleMoot, I encouraged attendees to vote for this tracker item. I am hoping that this request gets some attention.
            Hide
            Barbara Taylor added a comment - - edited

            If the Q&A could be setup better so instructors didn't have to create the post for each group (sometimes up to 20 groups or more in a large lecture class) that would be 2nd for me behind the dates in the calendar. #3 would be the ability to respond privately.

            Show
            Barbara Taylor added a comment - - edited If the Q&A could be setup better so instructors didn't have to create the post for each group (sometimes up to 20 groups or more in a large lecture class) that would be 2nd for me behind the dates in the calendar. #3 would be the ability to respond privately.
            Hide
            Lisa Beach added a comment -

            Calendar dates and private responses are at the top of my forum-priority list as well.

            Show
            Lisa Beach added a comment - Calendar dates and private responses are at the top of my forum-priority list as well.
            Hide
            Anthony Borrow added a comment -

            Rather than creating a calendar event, I am suggesting in MDL-48344 that information about rating restrictions be visible similar to how conditions from conditional activities are displayed. Peace - Anthony

            Show
            Anthony Borrow added a comment - Rather than creating a calendar event, I am suggesting in MDL-48344 that information about rating restrictions be visible similar to how conditions from conditional activities are displayed. Peace - Anthony
            Hide
            Rick Jerz added a comment -

            Anthony, I don't agree. A "Forum" is one of the major features of an LMS, so it should have a due date that goes into the Calendar. Of the three major LMS features, Quiz, Assignment, Forum, it is only the Forum that lacks this connection.

            What I see for Forums is something nearly identical to Assignment:
            1) Restrict ratings From (this is the start date)
            2) Due Date (this is what goes into the Calendar)
            3) Cut-off Data (this is identical to what we have today. It still allows posts, but the “rating” ability is no longer available. I really like this because it allows students to always go back and say something more. But if needed, maybe Moodle could have a fourth choice:
            4) End Posting (forum is officially closed and does not permit any more posts.)

            Show
            Rick Jerz added a comment - Anthony, I don't agree. A "Forum" is one of the major features of an LMS, so it should have a due date that goes into the Calendar. Of the three major LMS features, Quiz, Assignment, Forum, it is only the Forum that lacks this connection. What I see for Forums is something nearly identical to Assignment: 1) Restrict ratings From (this is the start date) 2) Due Date (this is what goes into the Calendar) 3) Cut-off Data (this is identical to what we have today. It still allows posts, but the “rating” ability is no longer available. I really like this because it allows students to always go back and say something more. But if needed, maybe Moodle could have a fourth choice: 4) End Posting (forum is officially closed and does not permit any more posts.)
            Hide
            Anthony Borrow added a comment -

            Rick,

            Thanks for sharing your comments and perspective. As I continue to think about it, I believe by creating MDL-48344, I am taking care of how ratings should be handled. That frees up this issue to specifically look at the issue of the due date (which I see as separate from the ratings dates).

            I agree that the forum is a major LMS feature and a due date does make sense from a teacher's perspective. In fact, I might go as far as to say in most cases having a due date should be the default (there may be some instances where it does not make sense to have a due date but then the due date functionality could just be turned off in those cases.

            To implement the due date for forum, I think that the approach would be to create a duedate field in the mod_forum and then treat it consistently as due date is treated with other activities including showing up on the calendar. If both issues were fixed, then to have the due date show on the calendar you would set the due date. This functionality would be independent of the ratings start and end dates as this is strictly for grading. So by fixing both of these issues I think we could be consistent in that due dates are shown on the calendar and ratings restrictions (like conditional restrictions) are shown with the activity.

            I also agree that allowing folks to post beyond the ratings date is important. If there is a duedate we may want to have an option to allow or disallow (default to allow) posts past due date. This is consistent with the assignment activity that allows late submissions. Having that ability to me is important not only to encourage students to post any time but also because it is consistent with the underlying constructionist pedagogy.

            What do you think of separating duedate from the ratings? I think we can get the best of both worlds with these two issues and that it would enhance the usability of the forums from a teachers perspective. Peace - Anthony

            Show
            Anthony Borrow added a comment - Rick, Thanks for sharing your comments and perspective. As I continue to think about it, I believe by creating MDL-48344 , I am taking care of how ratings should be handled. That frees up this issue to specifically look at the issue of the due date (which I see as separate from the ratings dates). I agree that the forum is a major LMS feature and a due date does make sense from a teacher's perspective. In fact, I might go as far as to say in most cases having a due date should be the default (there may be some instances where it does not make sense to have a due date but then the due date functionality could just be turned off in those cases. To implement the due date for forum, I think that the approach would be to create a duedate field in the mod_forum and then treat it consistently as due date is treated with other activities including showing up on the calendar. If both issues were fixed, then to have the due date show on the calendar you would set the due date. This functionality would be independent of the ratings start and end dates as this is strictly for grading. So by fixing both of these issues I think we could be consistent in that due dates are shown on the calendar and ratings restrictions (like conditional restrictions) are shown with the activity. I also agree that allowing folks to post beyond the ratings date is important. If there is a duedate we may want to have an option to allow or disallow (default to allow) posts past due date. This is consistent with the assignment activity that allows late submissions. Having that ability to me is important not only to encourage students to post any time but also because it is consistent with the underlying constructionist pedagogy. What do you think of separating duedate from the ratings? I think we can get the best of both worlds with these two issues and that it would enhance the usability of the forums from a teachers perspective. Peace - Anthony
            Hide
            Rick Jerz added a comment -

            Anthony, thanks for your reply. Yes, I think separating due date from ratings would be great.

            What I really seek is when creating (or editing) a forum, there should be a place to set a date that immediately goes into the Calendar. I really love how Quizzes and Assignments do this. Quite honestly, this date-to-calendar is a great moodle feature that does not exist in Blackboard. Someday, maybe Blackboard will have this feature, but I am confident that Moodle will have it first.

            So yes, just a simple "Calendar Due Date" would work. I can't wait to see this. As you see, my feature request is over two years old. I keep encouraging folks to vote on it.

            Show
            Rick Jerz added a comment - Anthony, thanks for your reply. Yes, I think separating due date from ratings would be great. What I really seek is when creating (or editing) a forum, there should be a place to set a date that immediately goes into the Calendar. I really love how Quizzes and Assignments do this. Quite honestly, this date-to-calendar is a great moodle feature that does not exist in Blackboard. Someday, maybe Blackboard will have this feature, but I am confident that Moodle will have it first. So yes, just a simple "Calendar Due Date" would work. I can't wait to see this. As you see, my feature request is over two years old. I keep encouraging folks to vote on it.

              People

              • Votes:
                25 Vote for this issue
                Watchers:
                15 Start watching this issue

                Dates

                • Created:
                  Updated: