Details

    • Type: New Feature New Feature
    • Status: Reopened
    • Priority: Minor Minor
    • Resolution: Unresolved
    • Affects Version/s: 1.6
    • Fix Version/s: None
    • Component/s: Forum
    • Labels:
      None
    • Environment:
      All
    • Affected Branches:
      MOODLE_16_STABLE
    • Rank:
      3174

      Activity

      Hide
      Martin Dougiamas added a comment -

      From Luke Hudson (lingo at paradise.net.nz) Friday, 28 July 2006, 05:40 AM:

      The attached patch solves this problem using the following method:

      When a discussion is moved to a new forum, a skeleton discussion is left behind with the same title, but with (Moved) appended to it. The discussion will contain only one post, with the text:

      This discussion has been moved to here, in the forum (new location)

      The user can click either the 'here' or the name of the new forum to go the the relevant places.

      From non non (nbhansen at midway.uchicago.edu) Friday, 28 July 2006, 05:58 AM:

      I don't like this method of fixing the problem. I have a latest news forum, from which I regularly move threads to other forums once they are no longer the latest news. If a bunch of skeletons were left, it would defeat the purpose of the forum. This fix would create more problems for me than it would fix.

      From Martin Langhoff (martin at catalyst.net.nz) Monday, 31 July 2006, 01:22 PM:

      Fixed in MOODLE_16_STABLE and HEAD using Luke's fix.

      I've considered emailing, but it is really hard to define who should get emailed – the news forum of the site course would spam everyone. If moving threads is a common practice, then a lot of spam is sent.

      Nicole, maybe we can make this optional when the thread is being moved? Hmmm. The interface makes it really hard.

      Perhaps the fix for your situation (old threads in 'news') is to be able to configure the displayed items as X items no older than Y days?

      From Martin Dougiamas (martin at moodle.com) Monday, 31 July 2006, 01:30 PM:

      No new features in STABLE, please. Can you back this out of 1.6, please.

      This fix will create junk posts in forums that are rarely wanted, and will clog up activity records etc.

      There are other options, such as auto-subscribing the participants in that DISCUSSION to the new forum if they were subscribed in the first place.

      (This was how I'd always thought this problem would get solved)

      From Martin Dougiamas (martin at moodle.com) Monday, 31 July 2006, 01:32 PM:

      Otherwise I think emailing all the people in the DISCUSSION is also a valid solution here.

      From Martin Langhoff (martin at catalyst.net.nz) Monday, 31 July 2006, 02:06 PM:

      Backed out – you are right, 1.6 isn't a good place for this. Left it in HEAD for now, but pending discussion.

      Will talk to Luke about an email out to people who have posted to the discussion. What is a bit awkward with this is that the UI is the auto-triggering dropdown, so we don't get a chance to ask the user whether they want anything.

      The auto-trigger dropdown is a keeper, perhaps we could add an interim 'options' screen instead of implementing the action immediately?

      Something along the lines of:

      This discussion is being moved to forum XX, do you want to:

      • email all participants in the discussion
      • email all participants enrolled in the forum
      • auto-enrol participants to the new forum
      • leave a message with a link to the new location

      [ok] [cancel move]

      From non non (nbhansen at midway.uchicago.edu) Monday, 31 July 2006, 07:43 PM:

      Thanks MartinD for stepping in on this. I was losing faith in the bug tracker for a moment. There's nothing worse than filing a feature request hoping for an improvement only to discover that the proposed fix will only make things much much worse. It made me wish I had never filed the request at all for a second.

      I am mainly concerned with the people who start or contribute to the thread that is moved, because they are the ones with the most vested interest in it. I use this feature for two reasons, the one I described above, and secondly when a post is put into the wrong forum in the first place.

      Some may be subscribed by email, but others may not be and simply follow the thread through the forums. If they follow it by email exclusively, they will wrongly assume that no one has replied to them. If they follow it by going to the actual forum, they will assume it has been deleted. The real irony of all this is that the URL of the discussion itself remains the same, so you can't even say to the person well your discussion has moved here because here in absolute terms is still the same.

      Then what about the lurkers who may be following the discussion avidly, but not posting to it? We don't know who falls into that category or not.

      If you have people who are subscribed to both forums by email, then there is no problem with moving it, as they will continue to get the emails.

      If you have people subscribed to the first forum, but not the second, then perhaps send them an email telling them it has been moved to xyz forum and asking them if they wish to subscribe to that forum.

      For those that are not subscribed to the first forum, but are subscribed to the second, there shouldn't be any problem, because they will start getting the responses by email.

      For those that are not subscribed to any forum, you could email them and tell them that it has moved, but then those are people who didn't want email in the first place and they might not be appreciative.

      The fact that subscribing to individual forums is the default behavior in Moodle here, rather than all a course's forums or individual threads, is a real problem here. If that weren't the default, this would never be a problem.

      From non non (nbhansen at midway.uchicago.edu) Monday, 31 July 2006, 07:45 PM:

      MartinL-You say the news forum would spam everyone. Perhaps I should make myself clearer, as the forum I call my latest news forum is just a regular forum. I am not using the standard Moodle news forum for this purpose. By latest news I actually am just referring to the latest news in the media. It's a name only.

      From Luke Hudson (lingo at paradise.net.nz) Wednesday, 16 August 2006, 02:35 PM:

      The user can now choose from one of four different methods for notifying the forum participants that the discussion has been moved. Please be aware that selecting to email all users subscribed to a forum could potentially cause massive loads of spam. This is particularly worth being aware of, considering that some forums (fora?) may subscribe everyone by default (News type forums do, I believe)

      The attached patch deals with this bug as Martin Langhoff suggested.

      TODO: Perhaps there should be a CFG option for the default method?

      Show
      Martin Dougiamas added a comment - From Luke Hudson (lingo at paradise.net.nz) Friday, 28 July 2006, 05:40 AM: The attached patch solves this problem using the following method: When a discussion is moved to a new forum, a skeleton discussion is left behind with the same title, but with (Moved) appended to it. The discussion will contain only one post, with the text: This discussion has been moved to here, in the forum (new location) The user can click either the 'here' or the name of the new forum to go the the relevant places. From non non (nbhansen at midway.uchicago.edu) Friday, 28 July 2006, 05:58 AM: I don't like this method of fixing the problem. I have a latest news forum, from which I regularly move threads to other forums once they are no longer the latest news. If a bunch of skeletons were left, it would defeat the purpose of the forum. This fix would create more problems for me than it would fix. From Martin Langhoff (martin at catalyst.net.nz) Monday, 31 July 2006, 01:22 PM: Fixed in MOODLE_16_STABLE and HEAD using Luke's fix. I've considered emailing, but it is really hard to define who should get emailed – the news forum of the site course would spam everyone. If moving threads is a common practice, then a lot of spam is sent. Nicole, maybe we can make this optional when the thread is being moved? Hmmm. The interface makes it really hard. Perhaps the fix for your situation (old threads in 'news') is to be able to configure the displayed items as X items no older than Y days? From Martin Dougiamas (martin at moodle.com) Monday, 31 July 2006, 01:30 PM: No new features in STABLE, please. Can you back this out of 1.6, please. This fix will create junk posts in forums that are rarely wanted, and will clog up activity records etc. There are other options, such as auto-subscribing the participants in that DISCUSSION to the new forum if they were subscribed in the first place. (This was how I'd always thought this problem would get solved) From Martin Dougiamas (martin at moodle.com) Monday, 31 July 2006, 01:32 PM: Otherwise I think emailing all the people in the DISCUSSION is also a valid solution here. From Martin Langhoff (martin at catalyst.net.nz) Monday, 31 July 2006, 02:06 PM: Backed out – you are right, 1.6 isn't a good place for this. Left it in HEAD for now, but pending discussion. Will talk to Luke about an email out to people who have posted to the discussion. What is a bit awkward with this is that the UI is the auto-triggering dropdown, so we don't get a chance to ask the user whether they want anything. The auto-trigger dropdown is a keeper, perhaps we could add an interim 'options' screen instead of implementing the action immediately? Something along the lines of: This discussion is being moved to forum XX, do you want to: email all participants in the discussion email all participants enrolled in the forum auto-enrol participants to the new forum leave a message with a link to the new location [ok] [cancel move] From non non (nbhansen at midway.uchicago.edu) Monday, 31 July 2006, 07:43 PM: Thanks MartinD for stepping in on this. I was losing faith in the bug tracker for a moment. There's nothing worse than filing a feature request hoping for an improvement only to discover that the proposed fix will only make things much much worse. It made me wish I had never filed the request at all for a second. I am mainly concerned with the people who start or contribute to the thread that is moved, because they are the ones with the most vested interest in it. I use this feature for two reasons, the one I described above, and secondly when a post is put into the wrong forum in the first place. Some may be subscribed by email, but others may not be and simply follow the thread through the forums. If they follow it by email exclusively, they will wrongly assume that no one has replied to them. If they follow it by going to the actual forum, they will assume it has been deleted. The real irony of all this is that the URL of the discussion itself remains the same, so you can't even say to the person well your discussion has moved here because here in absolute terms is still the same. Then what about the lurkers who may be following the discussion avidly, but not posting to it? We don't know who falls into that category or not. If you have people who are subscribed to both forums by email, then there is no problem with moving it, as they will continue to get the emails. If you have people subscribed to the first forum, but not the second, then perhaps send them an email telling them it has been moved to xyz forum and asking them if they wish to subscribe to that forum. For those that are not subscribed to the first forum, but are subscribed to the second, there shouldn't be any problem, because they will start getting the responses by email. For those that are not subscribed to any forum, you could email them and tell them that it has moved, but then those are people who didn't want email in the first place and they might not be appreciative. The fact that subscribing to individual forums is the default behavior in Moodle here, rather than all a course's forums or individual threads, is a real problem here. If that weren't the default, this would never be a problem. From non non (nbhansen at midway.uchicago.edu) Monday, 31 July 2006, 07:45 PM: MartinL-You say the news forum would spam everyone. Perhaps I should make myself clearer, as the forum I call my latest news forum is just a regular forum. I am not using the standard Moodle news forum for this purpose. By latest news I actually am just referring to the latest news in the media. It's a name only. From Luke Hudson (lingo at paradise.net.nz) Wednesday, 16 August 2006, 02:35 PM: The user can now choose from one of four different methods for notifying the forum participants that the discussion has been moved. Please be aware that selecting to email all users subscribed to a forum could potentially cause massive loads of spam. This is particularly worth being aware of, considering that some forums (fora?) may subscribe everyone by default (News type forums do, I believe) The attached patch deals with this bug as Martin Langhoff suggested. TODO: Perhaps there should be a CFG option for the default method?

        People

        • Votes:
          0 Vote for this issue
          Watchers:
          0 Start watching this issue

          Dates

          • Created:
            Updated: